|   A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | Ed Frias
Mar 7, 2001 4:36 PM | | Several of you guys have posted how dry or boring this site is getting, and how there used to be interesting subjects posted in the past, but not lately. And you thought you learned more from some of those past postings.
Let this posting be something a little different and also a way of educating the unlearned regarding speaker buying.
I'd like some of you to give your opinion on exactly what it is you look for when purchasing a new pair of speakers! Price is not the criteria and should be put aside, but rather the attributes a speaker should display when a buyer is searching. I'm sure there will be as many opinions as there are tastes. But, I'd like everyone "that participates" and writes an opinion, to do it without the influence of reading any of the other opinions until we have at least - lets say 15 or 20 postings? From the overall opinions of those that have learned what to look for, newbies should get a pretty good grasp on what they could look for when shopping and auditioning speakers. This should be an education for some of the readers! Thanks
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers |
| NO CHEATING YOU POSTERS! nt | Ed Frias
Mar 7, 2001 4:40 PM | | nt |
| All very good postings! PURPOSE ACCOMPLISHED! | Ed Frias
Mar 9, 2001 1:39 AM | | For any newbie wanting some tips on buying speakers, all the postings have given some good advice on what to look for. I don't think I can add much more than what some have said in one posting or another. But I will try to summarize the points and perhaps add just one or two of my own.
Software used for speaker auditioning!
1. Do a little investigating and purchase a few well known and well accepted demo discs to use in auditioning speakers. Even if they are not your type of music, if recorded well, they can reveal the accuracy of speakers. Collect at least four or five discs, each known for certain characteristics such as midrange voice accuracy, bass & high frequency accuracy, soundstage & depth, imaging & focus and dynamic range. I'm sure the "Rave Review" section would be a good place to start searching. One recording company known for excellent and realistic non-colored recordings is "Mapleshade". I like em!
Preparation to audition!
2. Clean your ears the day before you set out to start auditioning speakers. I know many might think this is silly, but many a audiophile have thought their systems were going bad because of this one oversite. I was convinced one of my speakers lost it's efficiency and went nuts looking for the problem a few years back. Was I embarrassed! ):
Advanced planning!
3. Read literature and reviews looking for pros and cons on speakers that fit your budget, but not eliminating lower priced speakers. Plan to spend enough time with each pair of speakers you choose to audition. As stated by others, don't waste your time with speakers that have consistently bad reviews, they're probably correct.
The rope-a-dope!
4. Speaker dealers? This can be a whole thread on it's own! There are a list of things that can be warned about here, but try to just follow a few steps.
*Do not listen to the speakers you desire to audition in different rooms with different equipment.
*Have each pair of speakers played on the same equipment in the same room. If it means unhooking and rehooking the next pair of speakers up, so be it!
*A switch box would be nice, but make sure if switching between two pairs, that you have them at an equal distance apart, not one pair both on the outersides of the other.
*Once finished auditioning the first pair, switch to the second pair without the salesperson touching the volume or any other controls on the equipment. This is a notorious method stereo shops use to make certain speakers sound better than others! Even a tiny bit of volume can make an inferior speaker sound better than another speaker that might actually be better!
*The only thing the salesperson should be allowed to touch is the CD players "Open, Close, Play & Track" buttons!
*Try to have the auditioning room quiet and the salesperson's mouth shut (hard some times) unless you ask a question! Don't ask his opinion! Try to learn what you like without the influence of another.
An experienced salesman can point out pros and cons, but it should be only if you ask. They'll usually bias towards what they like, so you'll have to decide if you want his opinion.
*Make sure all equipment is set to flat and all tone controls are by-passed if possible. Set the volume at a level you like and don't let anyone near it!
Listening!
5. I think you can read all the postings below and choose the points you liked best and write them down. How to listen takes practice! Just remember what you liked best on certain cuts of each of your demo discs, and compare it on the next pair of speakers you audition.
Speaker Criteria!
6. The following criteria is basic in what to look for:
A. Efficiency! If speakers are not efficient, they will be very equipment sensitive (82-86db). Meaning, they may not sound good unless you have more expensive equipment hooked to them. A good efficient pair of speakers will work with a variety of amps and receivers. 88-89db efficiency shoul |
| All very good postings! PURPOSE ACCOMPLISHED! | Ed Frias
Mar 9, 2001 1:43 AM | | For any newbie wanting some tips on buying speakers, all the postings have given some good advice on what to look for. I don't think I can add much more than what some have said in one posting or another. But I will try to summarize the points and perhaps add just one or two of my own.
Software used for speaker auditioning!
1. Do a little investigating and purchase a few well known and well accepted demo discs to use in auditioning speakers. Even if they are not your type of music, if recorded well, they can reveal the accuracy of speakers. Collect at least four or five discs, each known for certain characteristics such as midrange voice accuracy, bass & high frequency accuracy, soundstage & depth, imaging & focus and dynamic range. I'm sure the "Rave Review" section would be a good place to start searching. One recording company known for excellent and realistic non-colored recordings is "Mapleshade". I like em!
Preparation to audition!
2. Clean your ears the day before you set out to start auditioning speakers. I know many might think this is silly, but many a audiophile have thought their systems were going bad because of this one oversite. I was convinced one of my speakers lost it's efficiency and went nuts looking for the problem a few years back. Was I embarrassed! ):
Advanced planning!
3. Read literature and reviews looking for pros and cons on speakers that fit your budget, but not eliminating lower priced speakers. Plan to spend enough time with each pair of speakers you choose to audition. As stated by others, don't waste your time with speakers that have consistently bad reviews, they're probably correct.
The rope-a-dope!
4. Speaker dealers? This can be a whole thread on it's own! There are a list of things that can be warned about here, but try to just follow a few steps.
*Do not listen to the speakers you desire to audition in different rooms with different equipment.
*Have each pair of speakers played on the same equipment in the same room. If it means unhooking and rehooking the next pair of speakers up, so be it!
*A switch box would be nice, but make sure if switching between two pairs, that you have them at an equal distance apart, not one pair both on the outersides of the other.
*Once finished auditioning the first pair, switch to the second pair without the salesperson touching the volume or any other controls on the equipment. This is a notorious method stereo shops use to make certain speakers sound better than others! Even a tiny bit of volume can make an inferior speaker sound better than another speaker that might actually be better!
*The only thing the salesperson should be allowed to touch is the CD players "Open, Close, Play & Track" buttons!
*Try to have the auditioning room quiet and the salesperson's mouth shut (hard some times) unless you ask a question! Don't ask his opinion! Try to learn what you like without the influence of another.
An experienced salesman can point out pros and cons, but it should be only if you ask. They'll usually bias towards what they like, so you'll have to decide if you want his opinion.
*Make sure all equipment is set to flat and all tone controls are by-passed if possible. Set the volume at a level you like and don't let anyone near it!
Listening!
5. I think you can read all the postings below and choose the points you liked best and write them down. How to listen takes practice! Just remember what you liked best on certain cuts of each of your demo discs, and compare it on the next pair of speakers you audition.
Speaker Criteria!
6. The following criteria is basic in what to look for:
A. Efficiency! If speakers are not efficient, they will be very equipment sensitive (82-86db). Meaning, they may not sound good unless you have more expensive equipment hooked to them. A good efficient pair of speakers will work with a variety of amps and receivers. 88-89db efficiency shoul |
| Apparently, each posting is limited, so here's the rest of mine! | Ed Frias
Mar 9, 2001 1:47 AM | | A. Efficiency! If speakers are not efficient, they will be very equipment sensitive (82-86db). Meaning, they may not sound good unless you have more expensive equipment hooked to them. A good efficient pair of speakers will work with a variety of amps and receivers. 88-89db efficiency should be the lowest one should settle for. I know that is going to bring fire from some, but the more efficient the speakers, the easier it will be to match equipment. Also, usually the more efficient the speakers, the more dynamic they are.
B. Accuracy! This can only be measured by the listeners ability to discern. Does the piano sound like a real piano, both in tone and size? Does the singer in front of you sound like a person actually standing in front of you? Does that drum in the back ground sound tight and dynamic like a real drum? Some of you may have never experienced a real singer, drummer or piano in front of you, but if the recoding is very accurate, you'll know which speakers sound the best when you start to compare.
C. Dynamics range! Do the speakers have the ability to play very soft and delicate passages of music with detail, and explode with dynamics in loud passages without distorting? Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture" comes to mind, but few speakers can handle the original recording. Some speakers do a better job on dynamics than others, but this may not be a characterisic some care about do to the lower listening levels they might use.
D. Imagery! How sharp speakers should image can be argued and has been. But for the novice, just pay attention to how focused the singer or main instrument is on the stage in front of you. Does the singer's voice appear to be two feet wide, or can you point to the spot where the voice is actually coming from, say within 5 or 6 inches? Can you do likewise with the other instruments located around the stage, or do they seem to be mushed together in wide areas? If so, bad imaging!
E. Soundstage and depth! This attribute can absolutely make you love one pair of speakers over another considering all else is equal! It's best to use a CD that has a full orchestra or band on stage. With the average speakers set at 5 to 8 foot apart, do you get a sense of an actual orchestra or band in front of you? With all the instruments spread across the room and appearing from places in front of the speakers, behind them, to the sides, center, high and low! When you experience speakers that do this well, you'll never settle for less!
Well, that's my two cents! I thank everyone who posted for helping others that come to AR.com make their speaker purchasing a little more informative. For all who may use some of these opinions when shopping, we hope you will perhaps post a review in the future acknowledging how helpful this was for you? Success!
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers |
| One other thing:Beware also of sneaky salespeople who... | eric the red
Mar 9, 2001 8:33 AM | | ...may have a subwoofer turned on without your knowledge when you're auditioning speakers. Excellent post Ed. |
| OK I'll go first | eric the red
Mar 7, 2001 5:25 PM | | I want a speaker that disappears. The ideal speaker for me is one where, when I am listening to music, I don't notice any obvious sonic attribute that has to do with the speaker, but rather I hear the music itself. I want a boring speaker from top to bottom that all I hear from is the music, instead of hearing something about the speaker that WOWS me. |
| Since my input was requested... | Mwalsdor@cscc.edu
Mar 8, 2001 7:14 AM | | Eric/Ed-
Criteria for speaker aquasition, hummm? If anyone read my Shunyata Viper pc review> The review methodology used for power cords was NO DIFFERENT than that used for ANY product type<. Meaning I don't judge one component type by a different measure than any other. What is this criteria? Again my review addressed that topic at lenght. In my 25 year evolution as an audiophile- while respecting integrity/faithfulness to the source -my personal envolvement is enhanced by assembling components that fancy MY tastes/bias. So rather than pursue clinical neutrality, my bias is colored, colored to suit my tastes. I have a preconcieved vision that I try to embellish with each new upgrade. My goal is to realize this vision, to enhance ALL aspects of system performance, while maintaining the delicate balance between resolution and smoothness: By assembling components into a inter- dependant union that makes music rather than mechanically renders electronic artifacts. My objective is to compose a system that will captivate my attention, enabling longer and more pleasureable listening sessions.
Specifically about speaker's OR amp's: I really must stress that they should be judged TOGETHER. Yes ALL components - as stated - are inter-dependant on each other, agreed but the speaker/amp interface is the most critical. Imbalances here, and nothing down the road can fix it. Most people believe that you should FIRST find your ideal speakers AND then the appropreiate amp. I prefer to find my amp, then matching speakers. While I admit that speakers offer a greater or more diverse canvas to present your vision, for me the amp- especially tube amps - AFFECT the sound in MORE MEANINGFUL WAYS. YMMV.
MikE |
| In addition... | Mwalsdor@cscc.edu
Mar 8, 2001 11:32 AM | | I spent the better part of 1999 listening to all different types of speakers, trying purposely not to limit my opinions, other than they had to mate with my existing V.A.C. pa 35/35 (32 wpc) triode amp. I listened to planars, finding them enchanting, but they didn't work with my amp, besides didn't like the look. I guess I wanted a floor -standing dynamic speaker that could possibly mate with a single-ended amp, but investigated other avenues as well. We did some traveling to out-of-town dealers, long road trips and drug alot of gear home from "local" dealers. Also, some dealers were kind enought to send their speakers too me. This happened to be the case with the speakers I eventually purchased. After contacting Alan Yun about his efficent and elegant Silverline Sonatina floor-standers. He personally arranged an extended in-home demo with his Atlanta dealer. The demo lasted three (3) months. This was toward the end of the year and after listening to many speakers in the 2k-10k range, it didn't take long to decide we had found the latest member of our (audio) family. The brand-new, unburned-in Silverline's killed the store demo Theil 2.3's we had on loan from a local dealer. I held on to them for so long, because I could and I really wanted to be sure about my LONG-TERM satisfaction. After the extended demo, I couldn't be happier, as I am today that we made the perfect choice for our tastes AND application. This does not mean they are the best availble or that something else could provde more satisfaction, but eventually one must decide amongst the samples. What would I consider replacing my Sonatinas with? The Avante-Gard Dou's, but their much more scratch.
MikE |
| nice ta see ya mike!!! | thepogue
Mar 8, 2001 5:28 PM | | long time no..see/hear/chat/yell at!!..lol take care ThePogue |
| nice ta see ya mike!!! | Mwalsdor@cscc.edu
Mar 9, 2001 4:56 AM | | Pogue-
Thanks, I've been on a mission of mercy. I've been looking into doing my first DIY project. A 2a3 triode tube amp at that, so I've been doing alot of resreach and homework deciting exactly whats the best approach. Also tracking down some vintage 1945/1956 nos tubes for the amp that I've pretty much settled on. I'm still spending most of my on-line free time on other sites but occationally will drop in to say hello. Not to sure about the "new and improved AR"? Later dude.
MikE |
| I wrote two pages and this lovely system deleted it. . . . | Pjay
Mar 7, 2001 5:34 PM | | You have to wait until I am inspired again.
P |
| You must have used a bad word like Bose, Sorry! nt | Ed Frias
Mar 8, 2001 12:15 AM | | nt |
| Actually I did! as what not to look for. nt | Pjay
Mar 8, 2001 6:10 AM | | nt |
| Easy, I just look for the nOrh logo. . . . | Tyson
Mar 7, 2001 5:40 PM | | Hehe, only half kidding. If I were shopping for new speaks locally for a 2 channel system, I would look at tonal balance as far and away the most important aspect to me, followed by being able to produce good detail and soundstage. Oh, and no metal domed tweeters - I really dislike the way the vast majority of them sound. Since I already have subs, bass would be pretty low on my criteria. Now, for HT speakers, I would look first and foremost for a speaker with very good clarity/detail, next would be very good dynamics, bass extension to at least 60 or 70hz, good soundstage but not necessarily a great soundstage, and tonal balance would be the last criteria. Oh, and on both HT and music speakers, I would look for speakers that have "flat" bass response. Many speakers have a bass hump engineered in to their response at 100hz & below in order to make them sound "fuller". This of course, makes them very difficult to integrate smoothly with a sub. |
| Awwww now ya gone an' done it.... | Bovine
Mar 7, 2001 10:12 PM | | That post is like a red flag to all our nOrh-hater pals out there....after bOb sobers up a bit, we'll probably see a good di-aural post er two :) |
| I have been away from my friends(u folks) for a few days. Hi | bOb(I cant use just bOb anymor
Mar 9, 2001 6:35 PM | | I'm back(as Jack N. once said in a movie). I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I'm still looking for a $200 pair of 4.0's(ha). I find most of u have a better grasp on demoing speakers than I do. I dont do it very often. I have pissed off most dealers around here because of my attitude or something. I only buy new at demo prices!! I would love to own a used pair of ELE VIII's. Ed, will they work in the very small 11.5x16 room I have been forced to call home(to my music system) for two years? I hear(pun) they sound great and the price is right too boot! I dont drink because of my pills for old age. And I gave up pot for lint. But I love each and everyone of u! And dont forget to NEVER pay any mind to anything thing I post unless its about audio. |
| Hey Tyson, didn't you mean the EFE TECHNOLOGY Logo? (( : nt | Ed Frias
Mar 9, 2001 3:27 AM | | nt |
| Are you paying for what I *REALLY* want? Ed? | Alex - the good one.
Mar 7, 2001 5:48 PM | | >"...Price is not the criteria and should be put aside,..."<
Are you paying for what I *REALLY* want?
If not. I'll stay with middle line B&Ws, nOrh, Maggies.
At least I have never been disappointed with any of these.
Alex - the good one. |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | PJ
Mar 7, 2001 6:21 PM | | In no particular order.
1. Enough bass response so it doesn't sound thin, <60Hz.
2. Drvier quality, no metal domes.
3. Crossover quality.
4. Cabinet quality in general.
5. Tonal charactersistics, ie midrange, bass, treble.
6. Size.
7. Looks.
8. Price.
9. Efficieny/impedance graph.
10. What equipment they will be going with.
11. Customer service.
12. And after all of this....Does it actually sound any good. |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | PJ
Mar 7, 2001 6:23 PM | | Sorry...I forgot...
Imaging, soundstaging, transparency.
Its funny how I remembered these after listening to my setup...
:) |
| I look for a store that will let me take a demo pair home | Richard Greene
Mar 7, 2001 6:47 PM | | Who cares what they sound like in the store?
Once at home, the best speakers have such a neutral sound
quality that I sit back and enjoy my music for hours and hours -- then the wife comes over and asks if I like the speakers -- my answer is roughly "I was enjoying the music so much I completely forget to 'audition' the speakers".
The sound quality of a speaker with low distortion and a relatively flat frequency response is difficult to describe. The sound quality of a speaker with faults is easy to describe -- you just list the faults.
I prefer to listen to music at modest volumes to protect my ears
(75-80dBA) but for friends who prefer louder music I recommend that
they audition speakers with my Rat Shack sound meter to measure how
loud the speakers can play before the sound quality gets harsh and
the speakers begin to take the pleasure out of listening. This steers them away from small two-way speakers if they enjoy loud music.
With the small satellite speakers I have at home (EPOS ES11, NHT SuperOnes and B&W DM302's) that harshness starts at only 85dBA for my ears. So I caution people who enjoy loud music to avoid small two-way speakers like I use and look for larger three-way speakers (and add a subwoofer if they can afford one). |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | Jetsons
Mar 7, 2001 6:51 PM | | Good question, Ed. Here is my take on this:
1) An accurate and detailed reproduction of music. No added color to the sound. None of this smoothing the HF business is acceptable.
2) No harsh tweeters. In a reasonable price range, this eliminates metal dome tweeters for the most part, at least for me.
3) No listener fatigue. I've been down this road before and it was not pleasant.:)
4) Sound stage: I enjoy speakers which produce a wide, deep and powerful wall of music in my room. Speakers highly sensitive to room placement or listener position to accomplish a decent sound stage, need not apply.
4) Must be vesatile. I enjoy rock, pop, classical, jazz and vocals and the speakers must be able to do a good job with my entire music collection. Yep, those auditions are important.
5) Slam. I cannot use a sub in my apt and require speakers which can produce adeaquate clean bass on a stand alone basis. I gotta have slam with my rock.
6) Build qaulity: Must employ high quality drivers, tweeters and cross over components and presented in an attractive package. An informative web site that fully discloses what is inside the cabinets is very important and some manufacturers do an excellent ob of this (nOrh, Dynaudio, VMPS and ACI come to mind). In addition, company should answer any questions a potential customer has in this regard.
7) Must be easy to sell in the secondary market should upgradeitis set in, and it does. Speakers that have a reputation for excetional performance and build quality usually are.
8) Have to work with the decor and have an acceptable WAF. For me, a medium sized floorstander with a slender design was a requirement.
Thanks for the post.
Jet |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | adam_g
Mar 7, 2001 7:17 PM | | 1) I like to consider how the speaker will look in my room. If it is really ugly, or does not match my decor I will not buy it. I guess I just do not want a visually distracting speaker. If I had a dedicated listening room this might not be an issue, but I do not so it is...
2) I then consider how this speaker will sound in my room. In my old room, my B&W 604's sounded great, but my current room is much smaller and the B&W's are just too boomy. I traded them in for a set of speakers that complimented my room's accoustics a little better. I tried several other large floor standing speakers, some mini monitors with and without a subwoofer. Finally settled on a very small pair of floor standing speakers.
3) Will this speaker work with my amp? My B&W's were matched with a high power SS amp, but I sold that when I got rid of the B&W's. My new setup is driven by a small tube amp, so speaker efficiency became an issue.
4) Personal preference... what speakers did I enjoy listening to the most in my budget that would work with my amp / room.
I think the most important thing is how the speaker sounds in your room, however. You can change your amp easily enough, but it is often very hard to change the size of your room. Some speakers I auditioned could not be positioned properly in my room... with others I might have been able to use acoustical treatments to alleviate some problems I encountered, but the added cost would have exceeded my budget. |
| NO CHEATING!! We will be able to get 20 posts very easily (nt) | eric the red
Mar 7, 2001 7:42 PM | | . |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | Pat D
Mar 7, 2001 8:19 PM | | As Richard and others have said, I want a speaker that simply sounds nice to listen to, so nice I forget to evaluate it. It should be sonically invisible, so that in the dark, I can't locate it by the sound in the listening position. I should hear music, not the speaker, let alone the speaker's tweeter.
It should reproduces all types of music well, within its frequency response limits: I don't expect a small speaker to really do big bass drums, large pipe organs, and such. The music I use to audition is as follows and some suggestions:
-Full orchestral climax with massed strings (Mozart or Beethoven symphony)
-Male vocals
-Female vocals
-Mixed chorus (Mozart's Requiem, Handel's Messiah)
-Piano
I hate a peaky upper midrange, hence the full orchestra and the mixed chorus. (Sorry, that is not easy to pick out with a lot of popular music and jazz, and I think that is why so many get burned.) My speakers will have to do well on all of them--few actually get past the first one or three. After that, I can try whatever I please.
You want to know why I have only bought two pairs of speakers in the last 25 years? Research and systematic auditioning are the reasons. When I got the speakers, I knew that I could enjoy music over them for a long time (20 yeqars is the figure I kept in my head).
The final listening should be at home, although if I have done my homework, there should be no problem. Room effects are most important below the midrange. You can determine whether the speaker can be driven by your electronics, as well. This requires a dealer who allows home trials.
The sound should be smooth and listenable with most recordings.
The stereo image should be consistent and plausible.
It certainly is nice to have a set of frequency response curves, impedance vs. frequency curves, distortion, and other measurements such as those done at the NRC or by good magazines, but this is not always possible.
The speakers should be able to easily play louder than I need. I don't want speakers that are likely to be damaged in normal use. Like Richard, I avoid loud noises, though I allow a bit more than he does for short periods. It is surprising how loud even 65-70 dB can sound at times, and most of the time I listen below 80 dBa. It is very seldom I listen to anything over about 82-84 dBa, and not for long periods of time.
I usually stick to manufacturers whose speakers get reviewed or that I otherwise hear about. Or, they could be something a dealer had available while I was there for some other reason. One can't very well audition a speaker one has never heard about. I also look for speakers that I figure can be repaired if they are damaged for some reason. |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | gonefishin
Mar 7, 2001 8:48 PM | | Hi pat....good post...I actually just realized that while writing my small novel(below) I forgot to mention just WHAT my preferences are...oops.
back to the reason for posting a reply....I see you mentioned chorus. Have you got any suggestions for someone that wants to get their feet wet in this type of music. Most of what I've heard in chorus has been Christmas music....lol.....hey, it's true. But I do seem somewhat....almost drawn to the wide range of angelic to explosive voices mixed in a single song....told ya I was a rookie at this music....any way.....any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks....
gonefishin |
| You cheated gonefishin! How'd you know Pat's post was good? | Ed Frias
Mar 8, 2001 12:51 AM | | BUSTED ALSO !!!!!!
(>:} |
| Because...... | gonefishin
Mar 8, 2001 6:02 AM | | .....once mine was written....I read the other posts. Maybe I misunderstood.....I thought we were supposed to wait to read the other posts until your done writting your own. If I was wrong(which it seems I may have been) then I say......DAMN!!! could I try again? sorry....I still think you have a great post here....even if all of us didn't follow instructions.
enjoy the music |
| Bunch of rebels! But I like ya anyhow! nt | Ed Frias
Mar 9, 2001 1:59 AM | | nt |
| :) (nt) | gonefishin
Mar 9, 2001 3:34 AM | | nt |
| Pat, YOU CHEATED! How would you know what Richard wrote? | Ed Frias
Mar 8, 2001 12:45 AM | | Busted!!!!!!!!
I knew some of you wouldn't keep to the rules! (>:} |
| Because I've read Richard's posts before on this. | Pat D
Mar 8, 2001 6:25 AM | | Besides, one main point is in the title, and he has often posted how loudly he listens.
But I never was one for following arbitrary ;-) rules! |
| re: A simple test ? Good post Pat! | KEITH
Mar 8, 2001 7:06 PM | | |
| OK Pat-please name the two speakers-thanks (nt) | eric the red
Mar 8, 2001 9:27 PM | | . |
| nice post Ed!!!...... | gonefishin
Mar 7, 2001 8:40 PM | | you had to mention....don't read the post until you respond...thanks....I wasn't thinkin' of it till you mentioned it >:(
What do I look for in speakers.....Hmmmm.....When auditioning speakers I've used this strange process.....hey...it works for me. First I'll pick three main songs....from three seperate CDs. I will always start my auditioning with these three songs. The material will show some of the qualities I look for....One for tonal accuracy(instruments and vocals).....next is soundstage(depth and width)....then with the last....I try and pick something that focuses more on vocals(men and women both). These are not in any order of importance. Now I have the material....and even if I find some recordings that are better I stay with these original three.
Now, what speakers do I look at? What I do is kind of time consuming...not to mention a little strange. I'll start off going to store number 1.....at this store I'll audition the speakers that I feel are in my price range...at this store I'll narrow my choices down to two speakers with only one winner. Once I find a winner I then listen to the speaker(in this same family) that is one model below(the winner)and one model above. Why? Because, if the model above has an improvement in sound that can justify the money...this becomes my new "winner" AND if the model below sounds the same or almost as good but a lot less money....I'll consider this speaker to be the winner. Once this is done and I can declare one winner at this store I'm done here. Notice I don't listen to the speaker two spots above my original....if you do this you'll soon be WAY out of your price range...I said WAY out of your price range. OK....I'm done audtioning here...but do I leave....not always. If the store has a nice "expensive" system...their top-of-the-line....I'll listen to this....this gives me a kind of vision of what I MAY be striving for. Many sound good...but some may not be everything you want...at any price....it kind of gives your pallete a chance to find your preference with a no holds barred attitude. Remember, do this after you are done auditioning....you don't want to spoil your appetite.
Store two. I'll do the exact same process as above narrowing this store down to it's own "winner". But now I have two winners. Well, as soon as I'm finished declaring the winner in store number two...I'll drive to store number one and listen to my original "winners" from here I have to decide which speaker has won out of these two. This pair of speakers will become my "reference" pair....the pair to beat. If I can't decide...then I'll go home and try them both on the same day...another day. This can be a pain....I've drove over a hundred miles round trip speaker shopping. This goes on and on...untill I have only ONE or two winners. Keep in mind that once you have a winner at a particular store...listen to these speakers for an extended period of time(to see if you experience listener fatigue....you'll know when it happens!!...some are subtle...and some down right actually hurt!!)
Now that I have one or two winners...it's time to audition at home....ALWAYS audition at home in YOUR own system before picking ANY components whenever possible. Also, If you can "demo" both speakers at the same time when at home. Well...It's time to make a decision.....so YOU make the decision...not a salesman...not a magazine....not anyone online...YOU!
Some things to keep in mind. When auditioning speakers try and match the electronics excactly...or as close as possible....this means ALL electronics. listen to yourself. It's easy to look on a piece of paper and pick the speaker that has the best specs.....specs can serve as a tool...but should not be looked at to conclude how they'll sound. LEARN your preferences....ok...everyone will say "I want a speaker that doesn't add or subtract anything " heck...I've said that before. But all speakers do have charactoristics |
| as if.... | gonefishin
Mar 7, 2001 9:04 PM | | .....that wasn't long enough....here are my preferences in speakers(I think this is actually what you asked for)
a nice sounding....easy to listen to tonally correct....detailed...transparant speaker with a huge soundstage from wide side to side top to basement....pinpoint imaging that works well with my electronics. Hmmm....seems easy when you look at it like that.
thanks for your post Ed.
enjoy the music |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | CrowsNest
Mar 8, 2001 3:55 AM | | here we go...
I don't want to buy a speaker that, according to the majority on this site, sucks. I don't want to buy some cheap speakers that any baffoon can get at the huge electronic stores. I don't want to feel like I paid for the name of the speaker and not the quality. And when it comes to quality, is that the overall construction of the speaker cabinet? the components used inside? where its built? I still don't know!! Some companies brag about the components they use to make the actual speaker, but how am I supposed to know that "it's the best one on the market." so, I'll keep looking and listening
CN |
| For me | Bryan
Mar 8, 2001 6:52 AM | | Price has to be a consideration. If it isn't then I might as well buy the Kharma Grand Enigma. After all, what's $1 million anyway? Another factor is the looks. How would this speaker look in my room? Will it draw attention to itself? Then there is the sound. I'll read the reviews here and see what others have thought. If most of them are bad, then it probably isn't a good speaker to buy. However I also will go through those reviews and toss the ones which say this speaker sucks just because of the way it looks along with the other ones which are in there just to life up the speakers rating. Another factor is long term satisfaction. I bought a pair of KLHs but I know they are not the ones I'm going to listen to for the long term. Those will go to my father for his bedroom. In the near future the KLHs will be used as stands for the nOrh 4.0s.
So for me the order goes:
1. Price/performance ratio
2. What others thought about the speaker.
3. Sound
4. Quality of the speaker
5. Customer satisfaction
My ears may not be trained the best but I do know my Wharfedales are better than my KLHs and the ARs I have are much better than the DCMs. I also will try to compare speakers in the same class. That is the best comparison I can do. It would be wrong of me to compared B&W Nautilus speakers to AR 206HOs. Overall, the price/performance ratio is the most important item to me. |
| For me | Ed Frias
Mar 8, 2001 10:17 PM | | <<Price has to be a consideration. If it isn't then I might as well buy the Kharma Grand Enigma. After all, what's $1 million anyway?>>
Bryan,
My point on price was just the opposite. If you heard a pair of $300-$500 speakers that sounded as good or better than some $1000 to $2000 speakers, are you going to elimanate them because they are much lower in price and can't possibly compete, or at least aren't suppose to according to the price? Some feel that higher prices usually equate to better sound, I repeat "Some Do". But is that always true? I think NOT!
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | Ralph
Mar 8, 2001 9:35 AM | | Don't let a commissioned salesperson pick the music;you pick the music. Pick something you have heard a hundred times that is musically demanding. A commission salesperson will pick something with soprano saxaphones and crash cymbals. You pick something with string instruments and human voices. Most speaker companies make three models.small room medium room large room. Don't choose a speaker that has to shout or whisper all the time. First, get the sixe right for the room. THEN select the electronics compatable with the speakers. Spend half your budget on the speakers and half on the electronics.Listen for thes specifics: Timbre does a violin sound like a violin and so forth. Balance is there too much bass,etc. Imaging Do different instruments have stationaly locations in the sound field? Can you follow more than one polyphonic line at once? Frequency responces high and low self explanitory Dynamic range. The dynamic range of an orchestra starts with the softest audible tone and doubles its loudness about six times. Through the pseakers is the difference between pp and ff shoter longer or about the same as in live performance. Don't ever pay retail. Hope this helps. |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | audiofreak
Mar 8, 2001 10:13 AM | | alright here goes.
not in order of importance.each point is equally important.
1)first of all i'm looking for good accurate bass.when i say good bass i dont mean the maniacally boosted thump thump.rather good clean bass and seperation so that a mid bass will sound like mid bass not as if someone just kicked my head.and low bass that does not bloom.
2)clear and transparent mid range,so that the guitaring on a Dire Straits track should stand out and sound easy and i dont have to strain to hear it.
3)good clear treble,where a cymbal sounds like a cymbal and not some ungainly hiss.
4)build quality,finish.
5)gold binding posts.
6)front grills that dont vibrate and make a sound of their own. |
| OK Ed-How about a summary before this thread disappears? | eric the red
Mar 8, 2001 2:20 PM | | |
| OK Ed-How about a summary before this thread disappears? | eric the red
Mar 8, 2001 2:21 PM | | nt |
| my opinion | sean
Mar 8, 2001 3:00 PM | | Midrange Clarity - I use Livingston Taylor's "Grandma's Hands" and Sara K. albums for this test
Soundstage - I use acoustic jazz recordings for this test
Focus - I use various well recorded classical pieces for this
General Musicality - If the speaker can give me goose bumps while I am doing the above tests it passes.
Bass Speed - I use a variety af recordings containing both synth bass and acoustic bass content. |
| i like to start by tapping on the woofers with my foot | spinsvinyl
Mar 8, 2001 4:24 PM | | seriously, i'd bring a bunch of well produced cds that i am familiar with to a audio store that doesn't mind some anal retentive audio nut taking up an hour of their time doing a-b comparisons. the best types of recordings for me would be solo piano, female classical singers, acoustic music, massed orchestral music, and some rock & electronica. i'd make sure the piano didn't sound tubby, rather dry (or the "pearls on velvet" sound for mozart) & lifelike. i'd listen for the harmonics in the soprano's voice, and make sure the sound had "face". i'd listen for any harshness in the violins in the orchestral piece, and make sure complex passages can be deciphered. i'd listen for what i like to call the "wood" in acoustic music, like the nice fat tone of a plucked guitar string. for rock i'd listen closely to drum reproduction, making sure the kick drum really sounds like a kick drum, and that bass lines aren't bloated or loose, rather tight & punchy. in electronica i prefer a liquidy sound, or if something like stereolab or autechre the analog buzzing should have a real presence.
anyway, my personal preference is a more laid back sound; smooth, open mids, tight & controlled bass, and laid back highs. i also like a certain anount of depth & air in the sound too. it's tough sometimes considering the less-than-ideal listening enviroments, and questions of break-in & equipement in these stores, so an in-home trial would be needed. also, a good and fresh knowlege of what live music sounds like helps enormously, failing that, comparing with a really neutral sounding headphone as a reference.
cool thread, btw! |
| it's a "feel" for me... | thepogue
Mar 8, 2001 5:26 PM | | you know when you get a good hit of thunder from a storm?...i think that's the kind of impact that get's my attention more then anything else....it's not at all the thud thud from all bottom end...but i just love that chest pressure...my 100's do that very well...but i must agree with so many others that they tend to be bright (i'm sure my smallish room doesn't do them any justice)....
but in a word..."impact"!!!!
have fun ThePogue |
| it's a "feel" for me... | Ed Frias
Mar 8, 2001 10:46 PM | | Pogue,
One of the reasons some speakers seem to have more impact is because they sway towards the brighter side! The top edge of a snare drum or snappy bass instrument definitely gets it's feeling of quick impact from the mid and even high frequency drivers. That is exactly why Home Theater speakers are made brighter than audiophile speakers for music listening. The dynamic explosions in movies are intensified by brighter speakers. If you'd like to test this reality, turn the treble down during an explosion scene in a movie, and notice how much less the impact is.
If you want to experience some good impact, find an audiophile speaker that is truly balanced and accurate for music, efficient, can take high wattage and has some super dynamic range. Then you will know what "IMPACT" truly is!
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers |
| i'm sure that over time.... | thepogue
Mar 10, 2001 6:55 AM | | my ears will come to appreciate different speakers and what makes them tick. i would say i'm about 25% of the way there. At this point in my life as i was shopping for my first "mid-fi" (i hate that term but you'll understand) speakers I was really looking for that 'BANG FOR BUCK' and i'm very very pleased in that light. hopfull in the next 5 years i'll take that next step...to what or where i'm not sure...but i think it's only natural. thanks Ed ThePogue |
| Since ALL speakers of similar specs sound identical.... | Eyespy
Mar 8, 2001 11:15 PM | | HA! Made ya look!
Cheater! :-) |
| Eyespy is Julian Hirsch!!! -nt | Jim Rouse
Mar 9, 2001 8:15 PM | | |
| Ya got me Eyespy, good one! nt | Ed Frias
Mar 10, 2001 12:58 PM | | nt |
| I have probably the least scientific method! | KeithR
Mar 9, 2001 8:36 AM | | Put on MY music...crank it up, close my eyes, and let the dealer switch every 10 minutes or so (A/B). So i pick one i like better, then compare that to the another.
As far as what draws me to one or another....whatever sounds real to me, where i lose myself in the music and is pure bliss to my ears. Totally subjective. |
| re: A simple test on what to look for when buying new speakers! | Jim Rouse
Mar 9, 2001 8:01 PM | | First priority: Vocals should sound very realistic. This is probably the truest test of a good midrange.
Second priority: Errors in frequency response should be those of omission. Rolled off bass or treble is better than excess bass or treble.
Third priority: Imaging. Speakers should provide a realistic soundstage.
Fourth priority: Output capability. Speakers don't necessarily need to rock your home off its foundation, but they should be able to play loud without distress.
Fifth priority: A good solidly built cabinet. This is actually the first thing I notice about a speaker, but if a speaker can manage good sound with a crappy cabinet, I'll listen to it.
Sixth priority: Customer support. If the dealer and manufacturer offer excellent customer service, this is a plus!
Lastly, buy from the people that do the work! It rubs me the wrong way when people make a salesman wait on them hand and foot, and then turn around and buy the product somewhere else (i.e. online). Those people deserve to have their equipment break down on them! |
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