|   RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | caldera
Jul 23, 2002 8:58 PM | | I just read this in Hometheater magazine (They tested an all Klipsch HT speaker system). Why in the heck would someone buy these huge RF7s and then cut off all the low bass to them? Why not just buy the single 8" woofer models? This seems dumb to me.
__/C\__ |
| re: RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | Solar
Jul 24, 2002 5:14 AM | | Even 10" woofers cannot go down into the 20-30hz range. That is subwoofer territory. If you look at the tests in the magazine it was only able to muster 70-80db at 50hz, hardly deep bass. That is why you would cross them over to a sub, cause a sub can to it better. Though for music(jazz, classic rock) it might have enough bass without a sub.` |
| re: RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | wanderingbob
Jul 24, 2002 5:54 AM | | Because the RF-7's don't go low enough to reproduce the lowest bass, a subwoofer would be necessary if you listen to music with very low frequency content such as organ, acoustic bass, etc. Even with a subwoofer, however, you still might not necessarily use the "small" setting.
The "small" setting (also called "THX") is often used because small satellite speakers can be damaged by sending low frequencies to them. Of course, the RF-7's won't be damaged by the low frequencies, but depending on your subwoofer and it's placement and your listening room, setting the RF-7's to "large" might result in excessive bass and a "muddy" sound. On the other hand, if your subwoofer settings and placement allow it, setting the RF-7's to "large" can result in better integration of the subwoofer with the RF-7's without the "muddy" sound.
I have the RF-7's myself as mains, along with a Velodyne HGS-15 subwoofer. Using B&K Reference 30, I set up the RF-7's as "large" and used a subwoofer setting called "Ultra", which allows both the RF-7's and the subwoofer to reproduce bass. The sound is not "muddy" and the subwoofer integrates well with the RF-7's (in the "sweet spot", it sounds like the bass is coming from the RF-7's; you can't locate the subwoofer by listening).
Bob Gardner
wanderingbob@yahoo.com |
| To answer your second question... | A
Jul 24, 2002 9:14 AM | | ...(the first question already answered by Solar and wanderingbob)...you asked:
] Why not just buy the single 8" woofer models? This seems dumb to me.
The reason to buy the larger speakers when you are going to set them to 'small' anyway is because the larger speakers can probably handle more power and play louder. But for many people, it would be dumb to get the larger speakers, because they are not likely to need them. Of course, many people buy stuff to impress their friends rather than because it will make any real difference; welcome to the world of Hi-Fi! |
| re: RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | Doug C
Jul 25, 2002 8:46 AM | | Subs are usually filling the 80hz and below frequencies. Your main speakers still have to produce adequate bass from 80-250hz or so to integrate well. In large rooms larger woofers will generally be more capable of doing this.
When it comes to subs and mains it's kind of like putting a jet engine in a VW Bug (this does'nt make it a jet). You have to consider the size of the room, required volume and other things to select a good match.
In my HT system I have run my mains (Paradigm Studio 100's) fullrange with my 3 subs. I find on music that the bass is not as crisp setup this way. I cross my mains at 80hz and the low bass is cleaner. This may be because the amp driving the mains and amp driving the subs have different sonic characteristics? Someone else may be able to comment on this.
I have a second 2 channel music system where I run the mains (Klipsch RF-5's) full range and have my 18" Velodyne connected via speaker level connections (meaning the amps speaker level output connections are connected to the sub). This arrangement sounds great. The sub is getting the exact same signal from the same amplifier as the mains in this case and it seems to make a difference.
Doug C. |
| re: RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | A
Jul 26, 2002 10:12 AM | | You state:
] In my HT system I have run my mains (Paradigm Studio 100's) fullrange with my 3 subs. I find on music that the bass is not as crisp setup this way. I cross my mains at 80hz and the low bass is cleaner. This may be because the amp driving the mains and amp driving the subs have different sonic characteristics? Someone else may be able to comment on this.
There are a few possibilities on this. First, it could be that you are having certain portions of the bass overemphasized when running the main speakers full range. They will be reproducing the upper portions below 80 Hz, and so will your subwoofers (if that is the frequency cutoff for them). So you would have a 'bump' in the frequency response from 80 Hz down to the limits of your main speakers, if you set the subwoofer to reproduce the lower bass at the same level as your main speakers above 80 Hz. This may be subjectively perceived as being less 'clean' than crossing over the main speakers at 80 Hz, which would mean that only the subwoofer is reproducing things below 80 Hz. This is probably the source of your problem with music; with home theatre, many people like extra loud 'bangs', which can impress some people. You can test for this with a test disc and SPL meter.
A second possibility is that your amplifier must put out more power for the main channels if they are reproducing the bass below 80 Hz, and you may be causing it to distort. (This is far less likely to be the source of the problem, but it is possibly the source of your problem.)
A third possibility is that your speakers are distorting when you run them full range because of the demands you are placing on them to reproduce very low bass.
It could also be a combination of any or all of the above. |
| Phase problems maybe | caldera
Jul 26, 2002 12:16 PM | | Could his subs bass be mixing with the bass from his mains and causing funky frequency responses?
__/C\__ |
| re: RF7's: two 10" woofers but HT mag uses "small" setting?!? | Doug C
Jul 26, 2002 12:49 PM | | My B&K Reference 30 preamp has an "Ultra" setting under speaker setup. This setting sends a full range signal to the mains and anything below the 80hz crossover point to the sub also. When running in this mode I go through the speaker level calibration and set the sub to the proper level with the mains.
Running full range does provide a bit more punch for movies as you suggest. For music though it's not quite as nice to my ear and I have played around with this alot. Having multiple subs (3 in my case) in different locations is a bit tricky. I have variable phase controls on all three subs. This is almost a must to get all subs and the mains in the proper phase.
Doug C. |
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