| AudioREVIEW's Forum Archives - All About Speakers |
|
|   Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | daebis
Jul 29, 2002 11:17 AM | | hi,
See i know Inefficient speakers need a lot of power to run them, so why would one buy them, Would not the Effecient speakers sound nicer.... |
| why would one buy them... | thepogue
Jul 29, 2002 11:36 AM | | 4 quick reasons..
1) you have 6 power amps laying 'round doing nuffin'
2) your brother owns a hi-fi shop and gives you an awsome deal on a pair.
3) you like seeing amps over worked.
4) you like hearing tweeters blow.
i'll think of a few more later... |
| why would one buy them... | Toasted Almond
Jul 29, 2002 12:20 PM | | 5) All the real good sounding speakers in audio history were/are power hungry.
Efficiency was highly sought after when amplifier power (tubes) was expensive and hard to get. That's not the case anymore. Give me a speaker that likes to get whacked with a couple four, five, six hundred watts.
Toasted Almond |
| do I smell somfinn?...sniff sniff... | thepogue
Jul 29, 2002 1:08 PM | | oh thats you...sorry...;)
I'm not sure that I totally agree with that statment "All the real good sounding speakers in audio history were/are power hungry"...although there are some great examples power hungy/great sounding but i don't think that's a hard and fast rule...also I'm just wondering where one draws the line between efficient and inefficient...92dB?...89?...98?...I really don't know to be honest..just a thought?
Pogue |
| Ah, ... you found a pic of my garage speakers... | Jimmy C
Jul 29, 2002 2:51 PM | | ...O.K., well... maybe next lifetime. I think "efficient" is generally regarded to be about 95 on the sensitivity scale. |
| do I smell somfinn?...sniff sniff... | Toasted Almond
Jul 30, 2002 3:37 PM | | What's with the sniff sniff stuff there Pogue. We going to get nasty, or am I missing something?
Toasted Almond |
| every time I see you... | thepogue
Jul 30, 2002 4:33 PM | | I smell toasted almonds....and it makes me wanna run out and get some toasted almond ice cream...or do shots of some almondy stuff...I'm just damned glad you didn't use a name like dog shite....hehehe
No harm No foul Brudda....Pogue |
| every time I see you... | Toasted Almond
Jul 31, 2002 3:05 AM | | Thank You, that's fair enough.
Toasted Almond |
| NOT!!! | thepogue
Jul 31, 2002 10:49 AM | | hehehe....sorry couldn't help meself...now go get us some ice cream...AND beer ;)
Pogue |
| NOT!!! | Toasted Almond
Jul 31, 2002 1:31 PM | | Not being a real cutting edge kind of guy here, I have to wonder, "Is this fellow trying to have fun at your expense?"
Now, in plain English, what's the problem? YOU want ice cream? Show a little style and procure it yourself. If your nice, I'll let you fetch me a glass of dark rum with ice while your getting your ice cream. Hold the coke.
Toasted Almond |
| Hands you glass of dark rum with ice..... | thepogue
Jul 31, 2002 4:20 PM | | No coke.
Peace and Procurement, ThePogue |
| why would one buy them... | JasonRF
Jul 30, 2002 4:40 AM | | 6) you have a small room and don't listen at rock-concert levels |
| re: Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | sam9
Jul 29, 2002 12:37 PM | | "inefficient speakers need a lot of power to run them, so why would one buy them"
Because the set of all inefficient loudspeakers includes Magnepans.
------------
"Would not the Effecient speakers sound nicer...."
Better than Magnepans? Ahem. Hrumpf. |
| re: Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | Pat D
Jul 29, 2002 2:46 PM | | And you're entirely unprejudiced, right? LOL
I like my Quads, anyway.
I do recall reading that the better speakers tend to be lower in sensitivity, presumably because many sensitive speakers have a lot of resonances. Most of the speakers I have liked have been low to medium sensitivity. This does not mean that there are no sensitive speakers which are pretty accurate, such as some Klipsch and JBL models and from what people say, VMPS. |
| re: Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | RGA
Jul 29, 2002 7:45 PM | | It's meaningless. Plenty of crap in both camps and plenty of great speakers in both camps. The folks that think the only amp worth having is a 3 watt SET will need a sensitive speaker...the guy that wants his 77db sensitive power sucker is going to need some serious watts.
The best standmount(for sane money and many would argue that at 3k) I've heard is the Reference 3a MM DE Capo rated at 92db sensitive into 9 ohms. 10 watts is plenty to play loud so you can go with tubes if you so choose...or you could buy the ineficient Totem Model ones...get out the 200 to 300Watt amp. The speaker is $1,000.00less but you'll need to spend that difference on the amplifier. |
| re: Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | jaosn523
Aug 6, 2002 7:22 AM | | RGA makes a VERY good point here. If you buy something very efficient you can buy a relatively cheap used tube amp to drive them. If you want to drive my danes or some thiels or something similar you're going to need some heavy duty SS power especially if you want any bass. And have you checked out the prices on the big-block SS stuff (that sounds good)?!?!?! It ain't cheap. Even used. I'm ultimately going to go the sensitive speaker/tube amp route and then focus on upgrading the amp slowly over time. Not to mention its supposedly much easier to make 5 or 10 or 30 or 50 Watts sound good (class A) then it is to do the same with 250-300 Watts. |
| No, efficincy has nothing to do with good sound. | caldera
Jul 29, 2002 10:10 PM | | Almost every speaker that is really accurate isn't very efficient, say compared to Klipsch or Cerwin-Vega. I have seen this for years (especially in KEFs, electrostatics & old Acoustic Research speakers).
Ever notice that real efficient non-horn speakers almost always seem to be kind of "in your face" sounding (or screechy, if they are really cheap)? Tap their cones: ding ding! They almost ring. Real light and easy to drive and usually cheap to make. Now go tap a B&W woofer or a martin-Logan woofer. You will just hear a dull "thud". Old AR's actually used felt to stop unwanted vibrations! They were REAL inefficient and only had impednaces of 4 ohms (or less) so amps would make more power to drive them better.
to get rid of funky frequency dips and peaks and unneeded resonances, woofer cones are thick and/or coated with special coatings to absorb those resonances. that means the cone will be heavier and require more power to move. The surround effects the cone too: it is usually a dense rubbery material to absorb the bad stuff. Same with midranges. Tweeters use things to keep them from "ringing" too(vibrating after the electrical signal stops): a) ferrofluid, a thick oil-based stuff squirted into the voice coil, which also cools it off b) thick gooey coatings on certain cloth dome tweeters c) some tweeters use tiny cloth surrounds to help out with vibrations.
AND, heavier woofers can vibrate slower (a physics thing), to better reproduce lower frequencies. Ever notice that Klipsch speakers, even big ones like the RF7, don't go very low compared to other brands with same size woofer? Those cones are real light so they can keep up with the super efficient horn tweeters.
Crossovers also suck up power: if the speakers themselves aren't treated, the crossover can be used to iron out certain freqwuency problems, using resistors and other methods.
And I have read that some cheapo companies build their speakers LOUD on purpose, just to make them stand out in the showroom. but, when you get them home and listen to them for just 10 min. or so, they drive you crazy!
So being loud (efficient) doesn't automatically mean "good". Go & listen to EVERYTHING, pester those snooty audio salons, take grill covers off, touch things (carefully!), knock on cabinets, etc.. Remember: "To live is to risk"!
__/C\__ |
| I LOVE this guy! | Hairsonfire
Jul 30, 2002 9:13 AM | | C'mon . . . Gimmie a hug! That's great stuff! |
| How about just a handshake instead? :) (nt) | caldera
Jul 30, 2002 8:43 PM | | |
| It depends | DMK
Jul 30, 2002 9:18 AM | | The best set of speakers I've ever heard are 103 db sensitive - so I bought them. But, as speakers tend to go, they sound very different than many others. Take for example:
A Lowther driver in a horn enclosure (very high sensitivity)
An electrostatic (very low)
A standard 3 way box speaker (mid)
All sound different. All have their endorsers. There is a school of thought that says, given the same architecture, lower powered amps sound better than higher powered ones. Those folks use speakers with high sensitivity and can get loud volumes with just a few watts. Others maintain that high powered amps are necessary to get the dynamics of "live" music. The only advice I can give you is to listen to a few of each type of speaker (with the appropriate amp) and decide what YOU prefer. There is no speaker in the world that works for everyone in every situation and every room. |
| I second that motion. -nt | CHRIS8
Jul 30, 2002 1:54 PM | | nt |
| re: Are INEFFICIENT, speakers worse than efficient ones | Solar
Jul 31, 2002 4:33 AM | | Usually higher priced speakers don't mind trading in efficiency compared to lower priced speakers. why, because people that buy the more higher priced speakers usaully use external amplifaction anyway of 150-200watts. The more budget type people are probably only use a reciever and therefore need an easier load to drive. a lot of speakers like dynaudio and such are 4 ohms and at a 88db efficiency which will make a tough load on an amp.
The other side of the coin is the tube amp. a lot of 2-channel gurus love their tube amps. problem is most tubes are only 10watts and under so horn speakers or very efficient designs are neccessary.
So one design is not better or worse just designed for a specific market or power type. |
| Its all about tradeoffs... | PJ
Aug 1, 2002 11:21 PM | | Efficiency, Box size, Bass Extension.
You can pick two, and your stuck with the third. Its called Hoffmans Iron Law.
Klipsch puts big drivers in decent size boxes and gets a highly efficient speaker.
The catch is that running a big driver into the kHz range produces very directional speakers. |
| |
|
|
