|   argh...need floorstander help | f0rge
Apr 9, 2003 11:50 AM | | i'm looking to buy a set of floorstanders for my stereo in the $1000 range, they will be used for about 80% music, 20% ht.
the biggest thing i'm looking for is something that wont need a sub for music, so i want nice and full and powerful but not too boomy bass
i've looked at infinity, jbl, bose, mission and didnt like them, i almost bought a pair of polk rt150s but for some reason i was having buyers remorse before even buying them.
i'm planning to got looking for at some klipsch and energy and maybe even some b&w when i get home from school
what can you guys suggest in the $1000 price range, i'll take function over form any day.
oh, and it has to be available in a store somewhere, because i live in canada and i cant justify the import taxes/duty fees
btw, they will be powered by:
yamaha rx-v630 pre-pro
adcom gfa-555 amp
thanks in advance |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | midfiman
Apr 9, 2003 12:33 PM | | The Klipsch RF5s will serve you well. I don't think you'll find ANY speaker under $1000 that will eliminate the need for a powered sub, but these will give you some tremendous bass for the price/size.
Then again, you may not realize what you're missing without a sub if you don't listen to one in the first place. However, once you have one, be warned, you may want one thereafter.
Another alternative is to get a floorstander with the built in powered subs. One offered by Klipsch on clearance is the RP3s, with built in powered 10" subs in each speakers. They're approx the same size as the RF3s, but with more depth.
Other alternatives to look at for floorstanders:
Paradigm Monitor 7s and 9s (both non powered)
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/MonSeriesII/MonitorSpecs.htm
Definitive Technology Protower 400 (built in subs) or BP10B (non powered)
http://www.definitivetech.com/pricing/pricing.html
Axiom Audio Mellenia MT80I (non powered)
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80ti.html
Rocket by Onix RS550 (non powered)
http://www.rocketloudspeakers.com/rs550_desc.asp |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | Mr Peabody
Apr 9, 2003 1:12 PM | | If you can go $1,200. you can have yourself a pair of Dynaudio Audience 62's, that are much better than what you have been listening to so far. These little floorstanders are an excellent value. I don't know if they are available in your area. |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | igor
Apr 9, 2003 1:20 PM | | Check out the new(er) NHT S4, The ABsolute Sound just gave it a pretty good recommendation, and it is $1k, and has a built in sub-woofer. Set up can be tricky, as I read in the article, so your room, if small may not be suited for it. But otherwise it seems to fit your needs pretty well, and it looks nice to boot. You have a good amp to properly drive this speaker too. |
| re: Here's another... | igor
Apr 9, 2003 1:29 PM | | How about this one: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ATHASF2&product_name=Audition%20AS-F2%20Tower%20Speakers%20-%20Pair and it is well beloe your budget. MarkW has the model below this one, and gives it a terrific review. Soundstage.com has recently given the Athena small bookshelf a terrific review as well. I think this Athena F2 was also given a good review in either TAS or Stereophile, not that that means much, but better than a bad review I suppose. |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | Jetsons
Apr 9, 2003 2:15 PM | | If possible, audition the Dynaudio Audience 62 & 72s. The latter should be close to your price range if you buy used. Your amp should power these with ease. The Audience 72s will difinitely not require a sub.
More food for thought is the Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3 which is top rated by What Hi*Fi, http://www.aslgroup.com/ae/aegis_evo_three_vs_bw_kef_etc.htm You can check out the specs here, http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/products/aegisevo/comparison.html
Jet |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | f0rge
Apr 9, 2003 3:32 PM | | ack...now i have too many choices
i forgot to mention that i dont really want a powered tower, i have a couple of crap subs right now that i could use if i had to. i'm really waiting to get a good sub, but that wont be for a while so i want something that will tide me over
you guys gave me some good suggestions. moving up on my list will be the:
klipsch rf5
def tech BP10B
axiom m80ti (altho i wont be able to audition)
and i'll try to get out to listen to some dynaudios, but they seem a little pricey
thanks again guys |
| Axiom M80. Hands down. nuff said. (nt) | Haoleb
Apr 9, 2003 4:19 PM | | |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | RGA
Apr 9, 2003 10:17 PM | | Firstly you ae on the right track of what you say you will be going out to listen to.
I like the Adcom/B&W match.
The 603S3 is one of the best floorstanders in your price range. I live in British Columbia...So I may be able to recommend some places..if you're out here.
However...since you have subs and you are saving money for a good sub anyway...buying a floorstander is redundant. I would look at the 602S3 standmount which possesses one of the best dynamic bass responses of any spekaer in the price range..IMO the best overall Bass response available in British Columbia. Some others like the C3 from Energy and the Paradigm Studio 20 are punchier but also sound thinner with large dense orchestral pieces and suffer with certain full bodied low response room filling music such as Sarah McLauchlin's Surfacing album. The C3 though is very good in the midband and offers uncanny speed. It's also easier to drive...though since you have the power amp then you won't have a problem with the 602S3.
The 602S3 is a bigger speaker and simply provides more of a room filling bigger sound than most of the competition in the price range.
Yes in the long run you may want a sub with them...but it really depends on your room. Remember most floorstanders in this price range are glorified standmounts but they give you a free stand...which is usually cheap wood.
The 603S3 is not one of those...it too is very good, but it costs a lot more money. You say you want a tide me over until you can afford the sub. Well the 602 will do that...so well in fact that you can save and save until you can really get a top flight sub.
OR, If you can get a demo or used(if you trust the dealer) B&W CDM 1SE well, that trumps most speakers listed thus far...all the ones I've heard, anyway, listed thus far. Or a Demo Dynaudio Audience 52.
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.ranges/label/Range%20600%20Series%203
In Fact you MAY be able to get the 601S3 and a Sub for 1k...assuming you get a good sub...this should also trump standmounts for the same money. |
| How about Music Goddess by Aurum Cantus ? | lei
Apr 10, 2003 8:28 AM | | Here is the link to a group purchase. The Music Goddess by Aurum Cantus is superb at the cost.
http://www.gotapex.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59058 |
| How about Music Goddess by Aurum Cantus ? | jrotaryb
Apr 10, 2003 1:01 PM | | I used to really like the Mission line but it's been a couple years since I've heard their stuff. I thin kthe PSB Alpha T's are a fantastic bargain and they get down in the low end pretty well. Vienna Acoustics 'Bachs' are even more refined and really don't require a sub but they are about $1500 a pair. You may be able to find an online deal but listen to anything before you buy them. I got my parents some Polk towers a couple years ago (like 600 bux) but I forgot the model designation. Single driver though, light cherry finish...I'm not usually a Polk fan but this particular pair made a good impression (they also matched the furniture hehe). I can get the model # later...they don't sound as rich as my PSB's though they cost more than twice as much and are towers (PSB Alpha B's). I was buying in a reg. store though (like the Wiz, etc...) and the Polks sounded nice by comparison to the other products they had. *Last minute gift* hehe |
| re: argh...need floorstander help | boomin_nova
Apr 10, 2003 9:39 PM | | I have a B&W 602 s3 setup that i have had for almost a year. They have been great, and cost about $600 for me. I have them paired with a JBL PB-10 subwoofer that i already owned and they match quite well. The B&W's have plenty of bass, much more then nearly all the stand mounts i saw. But in canada i know the Paradigm Monitor Series is very cheap and they are great speakers as well. |
| PSB 4T/Canadian made...Stereophile Recommended Speaker | cone
Apr 10, 2003 11:11 PM | | These are surprisingly musical for the money...have a very open, spacious sound...and are slightly forgiving...but in a good way...they would mate well with your electronics...they should be well below $500 per pair in Canada...and dont need stands.... |
| PSB 4T/Canadian made...Stereophile Recommended Speaker | RGA
Apr 11, 2003 11:08 PM | | Stereophile loves everything though.
Snippet from UHF:
"I am looking for a good amp for upgrading my system. I browsed through most of your past issues. I became a subscriber in the early 90's. I found your review of the McIntosh MC7150 (issue No. 37) and I admire your candid comments. It's 10 years now and the Mac MA6900 has received good reviews in the US and other places. Will you be doing a review of this model in the near future? If not, have you heard of it and what is your general opinion.
I almost bought the Jadis Orchestra Reference but then I read your review about the short supply of the KT90 and I had second thought. According to an ad in Stereophile, the 2003 model of this amp in the US market uses EL34's. Again, will you do a review of it in the near future and if not, can I have some general comments?
I am a retiree of 66 years old, so the amp I am looking for may be the last one in my life and I have to be careful. My present amp is a tiny Italian integrates with two EL34's, and is quite musical. Its latest model, Unison Research S2K (KT88 instead of EL34) got a class B grading by Stereophile.
Anthony Tang, HONG KONG"
UHF Response:
Not many years after this magazine was founded, some 21 years ago, we commented on a letter by saying that if we agreed with what the other magazines write, we wouldn't bother producing this one. To that we would add a second observation: there is no audio product so awful that it hasn't received a good review from someone, somewhere.
Our comments on the MC7150 don't necessarily carry over to all other models of the marque, of course, though the design choices McIntosh makes (check the output connections as an example) would place them some distance from the top of our shopping list. We have, however, heard some recent McIntosh tube amplifiers that sounded quite decent.
Your Unison is probably a good choice, on the assumption that your speakers have reasonable efficiency. By the way, though the KT90 tube was indeed difficult to obtain in the wake of the NATO bombings of Belgrade, that is no longer the case."
The point...look to magazines that actually tell you something about the product to NEGATIVES not JUST the positives. Stereophile pussyfoots and softpeddles negatives and even the they still give them class something ratings. Which is not to say the PSB is bad becasue it's not...but Stereophile misses out on really good products and instead opts for well marketed products. Sometimes, as with B&W, they manage to get both a good product AND a well marketed one. But NEVER go by them solely. They have given great reviews to gear, British gear too, that Bombed in the British rags. And choosing a speaker...well magazines can be dangerous. UHF liked the Castle Eden...I found them grossly overrated.
UHF is very high right now on some Rega Speakers...they recommended them to someone writing in over the Paradigm Studio 20 and 40. The Regas are cheaper too. Who knows...I have not heard them...I didn't evenknow they had a line. I knew they had one set but a whole line...Rega is getting bigger. |
| RGA, RGA, RGA.... | Jimmy C
Apr 13, 2003 4:10 PM | | ...I sometimes wonder if you actually read the articles in S'Phile, or simply like UHF's stance better (nothing wrong with that).
S'Phile ALWAYS point out negatives. They also do comparisons... "This Brand X amp has better bass control, but the previous Brand X amp I had in my livingroom has a better fleshed-out midrange"... whatever. This is just for eg. purposes, but the mag does this for ALL kinds of equipment ALL the time. A point of reference.
Bad reviews? Sure... the over-$10,000 Kharma speakers got a "fatal flaw" review, overall thumbs down. The new, saliva-inducing, Dynaudio C4 ($16,000) wasn't perfect in their eyes. This is just a few examples of "cautious optimism" (war term, ...lol) used in almost every review. I can count on one hand the reviews that they said something like "Go out and buy this, there is no better". Maybe the Rockport turntable (money-no-object, I have no reason to argue with them) or maybe the V.P.I. Scout turntable (awesome for the money).
And let's face it... they hear, compare, listen (in their OWN room) to more stuff than you or I can dream of. Again, a point of reference.
Most of the gear they listen to is certainly a trip to Candyland for me (and maybe for you, also) ... why would you think the stuff would get an overall negative review? It's GOOD gear. Granted, most of the equipment reviewed is expensive, but not everything. There was a recommendation for a $20 cable, my "lowly" $995 turntable (semi-enthused article), examples like that occur all the time also. Not everything is "wildly" positive, or expensive.
Again... every component they listen to has good points and bad points. You seem to think they write "glowing reviews" of everything... the way I see it, they review "glowing" components.
Oh - Rega has had speakers for quite some time... I didn't find the "Jura" anything special... that's the only one I have heard. You need a "booster seat" for them - too short. But... it appears UHF likes "Camp Laid-Back" That's also cool... but it's not for everyone.
Just wondering where everything comes from... |
| RGA, RGA, RGA.... | RGA
Apr 13, 2003 8:48 PM | | Well and you're right...chances are $16,000.00 products likely won't suck. Though they do have a Cambridge Audio unit listed class C that got 2 out of five in What Hi-Fi. And Class B products in Stereophile like Paradigm are bypassed for Rega in UHF. And then there is McIntosh.
The point was NOT to go by reviews. And if one does then it makes sense to read say 10 reputable(such as it were) ones and try and get a consensus.
As for listening at home...that's fine...but IMO a reference system to compare against is better...a panel review is better.
As UHF noted...pretty much EVERYTHING will get a great review by somebody.
I suspect that UHF likes speakers that fit classical music and Jazz. The Castle Eden does both exceedingly well...but lost something for lesser recorded rock and pop(when I went auditioning). I also suspect that UHF is steering people away from Paradigm and Paradigm not sending them products for review is because those speakers suffer with classical music and jazz(IMO - may not be the reason)...Obviously reviewers are using their preferred music. I have not read Stereophile for about a year. Most of their reviews typically had the caveats..."depending on your room depending on your bass requirment etc etc." Which is fine, all mags do it...and the point was not to slam Stereophile. BUT, I have heard several pieces of gear over the last 2 years that Stereophile has not reviewed that is FAR better than stuff on their class A, B and C listing thta is also FAR cheaper. I don't have advertisers pressuring me for a good review either. |
| No, one should never treat the magazines... | Jimmy C
Apr 14, 2003 1:46 PM | | ...(any of them) as the Holy Grail. They are a good starting point, a place to learn about gear new to the market.
O.K., so S'phile gave the Cambridge a "C" while (which is defined as better than average stuff - I figure this means mass-market gear) while another mag rated it a "D" (two outta five, I figure A,B,C,D and F). I think that is actually close! In all seriousness, I don't know if two stars translate to a "D", but they could be similar.
One reason the Ref 3A might not have been reviewed yet is the amount of dealers selling them. S'phile requires a certain amount of dealers to carry them, along with other criteria. I have no idea if this is their reason, but I can vouch for a lack of dealers on the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. None in New York City! I'm on Long Island, and would have to drive hundreds of miles to hear them. I am still going to make trip one day - it will be fun.
Another might simply be too much new gear.
BTW, I assume the de Capo is one of the pieces you refer to.
I did, however, just order UHF. I don't care for the British mags and T.A.S. seems a little dry. |
| No, one should never treat the magazines... | RGA
Apr 14, 2003 6:17 PM | | No 2 out of five is totally not recommended and is largely considered terrible. All the ratings in the Recommended listing of Stereophile are well Recommended. And, Every copmponant they have reviewed over the last decade except ONE power conditioner(and the oddity here or there that fell between product releases) has been recommended.
Stereophile reviews very expensive gear and I'm sure none of the stuff is bad...but it may very well be bad for the high prices charged.
I can't beat them up too much for not reviewing certain things...they can't do it all...and they do do more than most magazines. Nevertheless I bought the Arcam Delta 290 in 97 and it's a very good amp. I had discovered the amp before I read the reviews but seeing the reviews pushed me to give more healthy auditions. There is nothing wrong with the Arcam and it probably deserves Stereophile Class B ratings and European Product of the year and blah blah blah. It's nice to know it is highly regarded.
Nevertheless, I didn't know about UHF which was pushing amps from these strange Companies I had never heard of, Linn, Quad, Sugden etc.
Indeed, a dealer back when I bought the Arcam and brought out a Sugden for me to try...and I did, but I kept thinking "what's a Sugden" and was rather cursory in listening as I was high on the Arcam after comparing it to several notable brands like Creek, Rotel and Naim etc(I was there trading my Elite Receiver).
I was recently looking for a bedroom amp for my little B&W302s when I came across a used Sugden. This time the company was not so unknown so for a laugh I tried it out against the MF Flagship integrated for 3k. The Sugden used was $425. The MF was better in certain technical aspects...but not musicality.
So I guess the point was geez, where was Stereophile? I'm not blaming them but the $425.00 used(2k new) Sugden is in the main system and the Arcam is in the bedroom. Going back through the reviews I can't find a Sugden review. This company does have a dealer network in the US. They may not be as big as Arcam but they are better, a LOT better.
Isn't the point to review the best equipment for the money, bnot what's available in every store? Audiophiles will seek out good equipment, audiophiles are anal people this way. Again this is not to say Stereophile is bad, because generally they pick the BEST mainstream audiophile gear out.
But they leave out the true gems. And this is why I tend to read UHF. They review some of the mainstream stuff and get the smaller companies...probably because Stereophile turned down companies like ASL and Vecteur etc due to their distibutorships. These companies want a review and are then FORCED to go to UHF...who are very tough reviewers who have ripped to shreds companies like Castle, Bryston, Linn and all the Receiver makers etc. SO if they pass UHF chances are they a good poduct. If they pass Stereophile, I dunno...some of the stuff that gets high ratings is to me pretty mid-fi or worse. Some of it is awesome..
point...read severalrags and see what they all say on the product you're looking at. |
| PSB 4T/Canadian made...Stereophile Recommended Speaker | Guardian
Apr 12, 2003 12:15 PM | | PSB 4T's for $500 cdn ?!? Tell me where!!
I've seen on-sale demo models for $600 Cdn plus tax.... |
| I would lean towards Stereophile vs. personal bias... | cone
Apr 15, 2003 11:37 PM | | as they review tons of mega-bucks equipment nobody can afford...are PSB 4ts the end-all?...ofcourse not...but they sound remarkably good for a 500-600 dollar speaker...which is the range most casual "audiophiles" spend...and more than most spend on multi channel drivel... |
| I would lean towards Stereophile vs. personal bias... | RGA
Apr 16, 2003 12:43 PM | | "I would lean towards Stereophile vs. personal bias"
So, if the speaker sounds like crap to YOU...you would still buy them and live with them because a magazine reviewer(usually one guy) likes them??
Speakers are a lot about personal bias...as the person is the person owning them and paying for them and living with them.
Nothing wrong with PSB at all and compared to another certain Canadian speaker maker starting with a "P" I would take the comparable PSBs...from bottom to top. usually cheaper and no worse. Better IMO.
Still would not buy ased off of a review...I might add them to my audition list though...and that's the real strength of magazines...to tell you about something you may have overlooked. Stereophile misses speakers that get well reviewed in other magazines like Reference 3a, Quad, PMC, Totem, Gershman and on and on. Instead we get a plethora of B&W, NHT(which I find irritating), Psb and Paradigm. Then they all get the same recommended listing. Hmm..three of these sound very different from each other and yet they all get recommended in class b and c.
UHF is for people with moderate budgets who want High end...sterophile is for esoteric high end, and What hi-fi and Hi-fi choice review a large section of both but are light on review space(because they review so much stuff).
Use them all...but use your ears in the end. |
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