|   Pre-amp recommendation needed | chua
Mar 10, 2001 6:33 AM | | I'm waiting for the arrival of my Odyssey Stratos and at the meantime, need some inputs of what pre-amp to partner it.
My current setup:
Audiolab 8000S (Will use in pre mode if I can find/afford a suitable delicate pre)
Marantz CD17II
Primare L20
Nordost Flat Gold MKII
VDH D102III
My budget is about 700 dollars. Thanks. |
| Pocket > $400.00.and...... | Jetsons
Mar 10, 2001 7:57 AM | | ckeck out the Creek OBH-12 passive pre from audioadvisor.com. Thirty day trail offer so you have nothing to loose. BTW, you can get them down to 270 bucks, on a new unit. Demos run $250.00.
Very clear sounding unit. I'm not loosing any of the dynamics or bass impact rumored to occur with passives. You will hear every detail of a recording. My understading is that Creek works very well w/Stratos.
Jet |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed | Paul
Mar 10, 2001 8:58 AM | | For your budget, I don't think any active preamp can touch the transparency of passive. One of our customers substituted the preamp section of the Audiolab 8000S by our FT Audio LW1 and the improvement was hugh. He went on replacing the preamp section first before replacing the poweramp section by a VTL tube poweramp.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| Paul, question........ | Jetsons
Mar 10, 2001 9:38 AM | | Is there such a thing as a modern well designed amp not working well with a passive?
I have a Madrigal/Citation 7.1 amp with an input impedance of 22K ohms (gain ?). I contacted Madrigal Labs with regard to using a passive and their response was that the 7.1 was designed to function with an active unit. However, the Madrigal folks did not go as far as saying "no" my passive suggestion. I'm playing with a Creek OBH-12 as we speak and it sounds very good to me, thus far. I'm using 1 meter Wireworld Atlantis ICs throughout my system.
I'm curious as there appears to be quite a bit of caution being thrown around some of these audio forums whith regard to the use passives. Based on my very, very limited practical experiece with passives, most of these fears appear to be unfounded. Perhaps I'm missing something.
Thanks,
Jet |
| Paul, question........ | Paul
Mar 10, 2001 9:03 PM | | Most of the problem in passive is caused by impedance mismatch. For traditional passive, the sonic signature will change with the volume setting because the impedance change. The volume setting sounds best when set to maximum. If someone use a big poweramp (most people here do), the volume setting will close to low hence the tradition passive will lose in dynamic. If your volume setting is high say above 12 O'clock, if is about minimum loss. Second problem is the transparency of the passive will reveal the flaw of other equipments in the system. If you read Marc's review of the Little Wonder, you know what cable he is using before buying the LW1. The email to me saying that it is too bright when first plug in the LW1. The whole thing change after he install the Select 1020. Passive also won't hide the flaw of the upstream equipments too. If you think your OBH12 and Atlantis is transparent, you ain't hear nothing yet. Stay tune. People said passive needs careful system matching, no such problem to me. If I throw in higher quality and neutral equipments with the LW1, the sound can only sound better. The variation that people heard with passive in different system is the revealling power of the passive.
Not all passive are equal. Besides the design, it also involves careful component choice. Since the design is so simple, the component choice is much much more critical than active.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| Thanks, Paul....... | Jetsons
Mar 11, 2001 6:51 AM | | and as usual, a very informative response. I did not know that it was best to have the volume past 12 o'clock on passives.
I do not experience the brightness problems Marc seemed to have. I would characterize my setup as quite neutral with at least the level of detail the Musical Fidelity A300 provided. The good news is that there is no added color to music (my rock collection included) which is something that concerned me a bit about the A300.
It has never been mentioned to my recollection, that passives can benefit the performance of other source components also. For example, the audio portion of my TV has improved dramatically. Voices are now very clear and this is the part that has my significan other very, very happy which is a BIG plus. Perhaps an additional selling point for passives.:) DVD and VCR performance is also vey good and again, no mention of this is ever made. If one is content or is limited to two channel systems (the integrated amp crowd for example), no doubt they may be interested in such info. I most certainly would.
I'm in line to purchase a remote version of the LW1 when it becomes available. Paul, I do believe that there is a significant market for remote versions of a high quality passive. As far as I know, Creek currently has this market to itself unless I have overlooked some obscure product.
Thanks again for the education.
Regards,
Jet |
| Thanks, Paul....... | Paul
Mar 11, 2001 7:47 AM | | Hi Jet,
We have been discussing about the direction in last couple of months which direction we should go. We almost detourred (due to market pressure?) to put out a model to compete with the OBH12 but we decided not rushing into. We reminded ourself that our goal and mission when making the Little Wonder. Our goal and mission is to offer the genuine hi end sound at affordable price to audiophiles who appreciate good sound instead of big name (or convenince!!). We know that OBH12 stole a few of our sales, on the other hand, majority of our customers don't care much about OBH12. They are comparing the Little Wonder to more exotic preamp like CJ, BAT, Placette, Audio Synthesis et. al. We want to make the LW1 a classic and it will.
Some remote model(s) will eventually come. Stay tune.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| Some clarification | Paul
Mar 11, 2001 10:17 PM | | Hi Jet,
I need to clarify about my previous posting. Just received an e-mail from Chua showing the concern about the passive issues that I mentioned above applied to our Little Wonder. My posting is addressing the issue of "traditional passive". Fred has designed his proprietory ciruit the X-coupler that is doing the impedance matching of the over system and the sonic signature will not change regardless of volume setting, source and load impedance. The only concern is the overall gain of the system.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| Some clarification | Jetsons
Mar 12, 2001 4:41 AM | | I can understand your and Fred's caution in rushing out a product to market BUT we need it.:) I can wait although patience is not one of my virtues.
I gather that most who purchase a passive are using it in a dedicated music system. In this scenario, I can understand why a remote would not be considered a necessity. In my situation and surely that of others, the preamp would have multiple audio sources plus music connected and therefore, the remote feature begins to play a much larger role. In addition and very important, my SO doesn't understand this audio purity concept stuff at the sacrifice of convinience.:)
I suspect that OBH-12 shoppers are mainly folks interested in an alternative to a remote equiped integrated amp, so the market for such a product may be larger than it would first appear. There are very good amp deals in the secondary market (perhaps the Stratos has something to do with this given its $1K price) which makes the separate route very interesting. I think you would agree that the vesatility and power offered by seperates for less mula than many integrateds is a very lucrative proposition for the audio enthusiast.
Regards,
Jet |
| Paul, question........ | azri
Mar 12, 2001 8:17 AM | | Been in your situation before. My power amplifier was Aronov LS-960 and the designer said it was not meant to match with any passive preamp. Well, I still ordered FT-LW1 from Paul and the unit has been in my current system for 3 years till now.
I'm more concern about the output from CD player rather than impedance gain in amplifier. I've been using Marantz CD67SE, Arcam Alpha Alpha 7, Creek CD42 ?, and the last and final was Rega Planet with good success.
Later I change Aronov into EAD PM1000 to complement my HT systema s well. Again FT-LW1 shows no problem at all.
I'm using Cardas Cross i/c while Kimber 4tc/8tc shortgun configuration if that counts. |
| Paul, question........ | Paul
Mar 13, 2001 7:27 AM | | If I guess correctly, you are one of the early adoptor of LW1. Nice to see your posting again. How are you doing now? What speakers you are using now?
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| Yup early adoptors. Same batch as John Barker or Hyperion. | azri
Mar 13, 2001 12:33 PM | | Been away for long time. Live is much better. Got married last summer with young beautiful musician. :)
Well, back to Audio.. I'm using Magnepan MG10.1 with REL Storm to complement lower octave. Also have MGCC, MGSS1 for Hometheater.
I'm in the Connecticut right now working with small "little" family. I'll change my speaker to something smaller like minimonitor to suit her taste. WAF is really hard. I have to buy five channel amplifier instead 2+3 configuration. |
| Yup early adoptors. Same batch as John Barker or Hyperion. | Paul
Mar 13, 2001 2:46 PM | | Congratulation! What instrutment your wife is playing? You may want to check back with the Mission 78 series. It has very high WAF.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed | Alex - the good one.
Mar 10, 2001 5:45 PM | | I've been using the Creek OBH-12 with the Odyssey Stratos for awhile now. Works very well. Very clean sound, looses nothing comparing to active. Just get a high quality shielded IC. (I've found both Groneberg Quattro Reference (from Germany.), and the Supra EFF-ISL (from Sweden.) works extremely well with the Stratos and Creek.)
Both cables are extremely well made, clean, clear, dynamic and silky smooth, balanced frequency response, and a lot cheaper than many super-hyped cable du jour.
But from what I've gathered. The FTAudio LW-1 is quite a bit better. My only reason why I'm not getting the LW-1 is I want a remote control. But I won't rule out getting a FTAudio LW-1 down the road. It's still on my short list.
FT Audio also offers a 30 days trial.
Have fun with the Stratos. You WILL LOVE it.
Alex - the good one. |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed ( Alex,Jetsons) | Puaychew
Mar 11, 2001 4:14 AM | | Hi guys,
I'm quite excited about the Stratos and really can't wait to see what it can do in my setup. Maybe I should not rush to buying a pre first but is the Audiolab 8000S(primarily as an integrated)good enough to play in pre mode? Do you guys think that I should stay cool and find out how this combo work first? OTOH it does not hurt to find out what other options do I have.
I will check with the local Creek dealer tomorrow and find out the price of the OBH-12 here.
Jetsons, how do I get a bargain @ audioadviser? (email me:-) |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed ( Alex,Jetsons) | Alex - the good one.
Mar 11, 2001 8:58 AM | | Of course wait until you get your Stratos, and see how well what you already have can work first.
If the combo can satisfy *YOUR* ears. Then... Why spend more money unnecessarily? No?
And DON'T try more than one new toy at a time. Or you won't be able to tell who's improving/degrading the system.
If you're satisfied. Use the extra money for more music. Or better loudspeakers.
Just remember one thing. Out of the box. The Odyssey Stratos is bright. But WILL gets better with every hour when the power is left on, and more playing time.
By about 2.5 weeks. It'll open up big time. You'll be really impressed. Then, by about 2.5 to 3 months... It'll just blows you away.
The Stratos is indeed the best deal in truly ultra high performance and built quality high-end (but without the high price) power amp find in recent audio history. |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed ( Alex,Jetsons) | Paul
Mar 11, 2001 5:19 PM | | I agree with you saying that changing one equipment at a time. The challenge is to identify the weakest link to change. If you cannot identify the weakest link, the full potential of your new purchase will never be revealled. It the case of the Audiolab, the preamp is the weaker of the two. Using the its preamp section probably can never reveal the full potential of the Stratos.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed ...ELAD | puay chew
Mar 12, 2001 3:11 PM | | How about Morrison E.L.A.D? It cost $790.
The review is super at this site. Check it out and give me more inputs.
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Amplifier/product_3272.shtml
Thanks |
| ...ELAD sorry wrong link | puay chew
Mar 12, 2001 3:13 PM | | should be this:
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Preamplifier/product_5998.shtml |
| re: Pre-amp recommendation needed ( Alex,Jetsons) | Jetsons
Mar 13, 2001 9:52 AM | | hcmaudio.com sells the Creek for quite a bit less that Audio Advisor (AA) but do not have the 30 day home trial offer. Try to get AA to get closer to the HCM price. HCM is an authrorized Creek dealer as is Toys in the Attic (tfta.com)
BTW, AA has excellent customer service and IMO, worth the additional few bucks to purchase from them should you have warranty issues down the road. Their no questions asked 30 day home trial offer is also a great way to purchase equipment that works well with your system.
Jet |
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