| AudioREVIEW's Forum Archives - Amplifier-Preamplifier |
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|   I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | akerman
Aug 30, 2002 6:54 AM | | Hi...
A year ago I wanted a better sound system than the 300$ midisystem I had...
So after consulting some "experienced" people, I wen't to my local hifi-vendor, and bought the following:
Amplifier: The Denon PMA-1500R
·http://www.audioreview.com/Integrated+Amplifiers/Denon+PMA-1500R/PRD_115754_2717crx.aspx
Speakers: Dali 8008 (Danish)
·http://www.dali.dk/Page.asp?MMID=1&MID=3&UMID=9&UUMID=16&PID=41
As for the cables, I chose to go with the
TaraLabs Prism Omni:
·http://www.audioreview.com/Integrated+Amplifiers/Denon+PMA-1500R/PRD_116642_1584crx.aspx
About six months later I also aquired the Denon DCD755 CD player.
What is troubling me, is that I have a hard time telling apart the sound from the denon dcd755, and the sound coming from a 192kbps mp3 playing out of my live! soundcard, through cheap cables across the room (using the new coldplay - a rush of blood to the head cd).
Is this normal? Or am I just a total audio-retard - are my prism cables sufficient for such a system?
Also, when I stop the PMA-1500R from doing anything, and turn the volume knob all the way to the top, there is a fairly loud hiss - audible from all across the room - why ? Aren't all hisses supposed to be eliminated, in such an expensive system!
Please confirm that I am getting the optimum out of my system, or tell me how to improve :D |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | snickelfritz
Aug 30, 2002 8:04 AM | | You have an excellent system, and some source material may not be sufficiently well recorded to extract the utmost performance from it.
Go to stereophile.com and check out some of their recommendations for recordings to judge system quality.
The noise problem could be caused by a couple things.
if it's a "ssssssssss" sound, your tweeters might be somewhat oversensitive and your room too live.
If it's a "zzzzzzzz" sound, you might have a difference in ground potential between two pieces of equipment and/or your satelite dish/cable connection.
Disconnect the dish or cable from your system; if the noise goes away, you probably have a ground problem.
It goes without saying that the bass and treble controls should be disabled for best sound quality and lowest noise.
"Direct" mode will usually do this. |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | akerman
Aug 30, 2002 9:20 AM | | Thanks for your reply ;)
It is not a sssssssss sound as far as i can tell, the
sound coming out of the speakers seem sharp, pointy, scratchy in some weird sense, if you can make out what i mean..
what do you mean by this: satelite dish/cable connection?
I don't have a radio tuner plugged in, so I have no input from satellite or cable, if that was what you meant! |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | A
Aug 30, 2002 10:56 AM | | First of all, NO ONE has EVER demonstrated that special wires help AT ALL in normal lengths in normal home environments, so not hearing a difference is what you should expect with cheap wires vs. expensive ones. For more on wires, see:
<a href="/crforum?14@@.ef8cc43">A "Wire links." 7/10/02 9:30am</a>
Second, 192kbps mp3 is very far from the bottom end of mp3. The whole point of mp3 is to try to get it to sound just like a CD, but with less data. Obviously, it is not always completely successful, particularly when one goes too far in reducing the data (though which data is eliminated is equally important, so one cannot simply judge which of two formats is best by the amount of data that is used). Furthermore, some music can be reduced more than other music before the data loss will be audible.
As for the hiss when you turn the volume control all of the way up, that is completely normal. All electronics make some noise. But since you are never likely to actually play music with the volume control turned all of the way up, what it does in such a case is completely irrelevant to what you hear when playing music. Can you hear, from your listening position, anything from your Denon PMA-1500R when it is turned up only as loud as you have actually listened to music? If not, then its noise level is completely and absolutely inaudible in your system, and you have absolutely nothing to worry about. And even if you do hear something very slight, it still may not matter very much, because when music is playing, it drowns out other sounds. This is especially true when the music is very loud.
By the way, you cannot claim "golden ear" wacko status now; no true "golden ear" would EVER admit to not being able to hear the difference between an mp3 and a CD, even if there was absolutely no audible difference. |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | akerman
Aug 30, 2002 2:56 PM | | But isn't this site pretty respected? Would they write something as fact, if it had not been proven at all?
I am referring to Learn => Audio Cables |
| Apparently, YES | Norm Strong
Aug 30, 2002 3:22 PM | | I just read the referenced article. It must have been written by somebody in the business of selling expensive interconnects. It reads like normal commercial puffery.
If the other articles in this series are similar to this one, the entire LEARN thing should be deep-sixed. |
| Take a look at the advertising here. | A
Aug 30, 2002 5:45 PM | | Don't think for a minute that money is irrelevant to what they are going to say in the "Learn" section. Now, I have nothing against this site having advertising; I prefer that to paying a subscription for being here. But I do dislike the fact that the "Learn" section is more like an advertisement than an effort to teach anybody anything. If they were serious about educating people with that section, at the very least they would mention the fact that the idea that special wires improve the sound is a matter that is disputed. The fact that that is not even mentioned (unless they changed it since the last time I looked at it) is a clear proof that pleasing their advertisers is more important to them than giving people information.
In the case of people like me posting here, anyone can say virtually anything they want to say. And for that I am grateful. Frankly, if they started censoring the ideas that are posted here, I would be very quick to leave and find someplace else.
What this means for you, obviously, is that you must be careful about who you trust when you read something here. Don't believe ANYTHING that ANYBODY says if it does not make sense to you. ALWAYS THINK CAREFULLY before you come to any decision about what to believe. And obviously, that applies to my posts as well as anyone else's.
As for wires, my first suggestion is to take a look at the link I provided in my first post, which has many links to many different sites discussing various aspects of the 'great cable debate'. It would be best if you would read them all, but in my list I provide a brief description of what is at most of the sites, so you can obviously pick and choose which sites to visit if you wish. Then I suggest you also read what others have to say about it who claim that the wires do matter. Then, AFTER reading as much as you can stand to read, or as much as you have time to read, decide the matter. But even then, you should always remember that it is always possible to be mistaken, so if you ever have doubts about your decision, think carefully about the matter, and read some more on the subject. |
| A couple more things. | A
Aug 30, 2002 6:23 PM | | What I have said about the wires fits perfectly with your experience that you related in your original post in this thread, despite the fact that you evidently believed that the wires mattered (otherwise, you would never have purchased exotic wire in the first place). Now, since you did not listen blind, it was not a proper listening test. However, one would normally expect that a true wire believer would report hearing a difference in the situation you mentioned.
As for mp3 use (which seems no longer the focus of your interest), I tend to prefer to keep all of my music uncompressed. It may be that you are using a format of mp3 which would sound identical to an uncompressed CD, but it is possible that with some music there would be an audible difference. It would take extensive testing of the matter before it would be prudent to come to the conclusion that it would never make any audible difference. I prefer not to take the risk if I do not have to. I am sure I would feel somewhat differently if I were trading vast numbers of audio files with people on the internet while using a dial-up connection, but I am not doing that. If I want more music than fits on one uncompressed CD, I use a CD changer rather than compress the data. This caution of mine is due to both an interest in keeping the sound as good as I can have it, and a laziness regarding doing any research and testing of mp3 files of various formats. I don't need to compress music files, so I don't.
Here, though, is a link to some testing of some compressed formats, including mp3:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/SoundAndVision/FrameSet/0,1670,_sl_SoundAndVision_sl_Article_sl_0_cm_1653_cm_129_4395_1_cm_00,00.html
The result of their double blind test was that the three formats they tested were all audibly inferior to CD sound quality. However, they could not always hear a difference with all music, and they were using a more compressed version of mp3 than you (they used 128 kbps). It is because of testing like this that I am not even slightly tempted to start using mp3 or other compressed formats if I don't have to (of course, I use Dolby Digital with DVDs and it is a compressed format -- but I have very little choice if I am going to watch certain DVDs, and it is a different compression format than any of those tested at the above link). In fact, since most of my CD players could not play mp3 files, it would actually be far less convenient for me to do anything with mp3 files, regardless of their sound quality. Your case may be very different from mine. |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | Wireworm5
Aug 31, 2002 1:48 AM | | With my soundcard I can't tell any difference from a cd played from my Dvd player either,its that good. An mp3 or wma at 192 kps will only chop the high frequencies above 17khz and very low freqencies. The mid range should be suffieciently uncompressed to not loose any cd quality. Even 160 kps is fairly good but with a golden ear you should be able to hear the loss of sound clarity in the mid spectrum and the high/low frequencies. |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | akerman
Aug 31, 2002 3:15 AM | | well I certainly don't have a golden ear, more like a rusty bronze-ear ;) so I guess I'll be fine :)
Btw are there any speaker guides, because I have this really weird shaped room, and I have no idea how to place the speakers so I get the best sound! |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | A
Aug 31, 2002 2:45 PM | | You should experiment, because each room is different from every other room. Not only does the size and shape matter, but also the methods of construction (some walls flex more than others, based on materials and method of construction, etc.). Usually, setting up a system symmetrically in a room, with the speakers and you forming the points of an imaginary equilateral triangle is a good place to start experimenting.
You will want to experiment with the speakers aimed directly at you, as well as slightly 'toed in' and also aimed straight into the room, as well as positions in between. You will want to try the tweeters at about ear level, and a bit above and below, if you have the possibility of these adjustments.
For home theatre, I strongly recommend a visit to the Dolby web site and following their suggestions. |
| re: I'm a newbie, am I getting the best sound I can get? | skeptic
Aug 31, 2002 6:26 PM | | 1. The issue of audio cables is hotly debated on other billboards on this site and on others. There is no consensus but many people who are experienced audiophiles as well as seasoned professionals say that they hear no difference between expensive products and the inexpensive ones you buy for next to nothing. There is little debate over the fact that after more than 20 years of products from this cottage industry, there are no difinitive double blind tests to prove their superiority, something you would think that the companies would have to do to convince buyers but still people go out and buy them. Decide for yourself but my vote is that they are a waste of money.
2. The sound of most CD players is so similar that it takes a lot of very careful listening to hear the subtle differences between the least expensive and the most expensive models, audiophiles' claims to the contrary notwithstanding.
3. It is normal for audio amplifiers especially in this price class to produce some audible hiss at full gain. If your speakers are efficient, this sound will be rather obvious. It is normal and nothing to be concerned about. At normal volume settings it should be almost or completely inaudible and will not detract from the enjoyment of your equipment. |
| Audio-retard? LOL!! | piece-it pete
Sep 4, 2002 9:01 AM | | If you're a audio-retard I must be brain dead!!:)
Sounds like a great system. I would piont out a recent post over in the general forum. Then I would point it out, since I can't figure out how to piont out anything.
It's "Post for newbies", by Bill L, dated sept.1st, largely about room treatments. When I first started getting serious about this I couldn't believe what a difference a rug in front of my speakers made!!
Good Luck!!
Pete |
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