|   Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 6, 2003 5:28 PM | | I'm starting to do some research into source units. I will be powering a pair of DIY speakers, a time aligned design with dual 6.5" woofers, dual 4" midranges, and a dome tweet. I want to get some powerful yet smooth solid state components to drive them. I'd like to spend as little as possible, preferably around $1500 total if thats possible. I'm new to this high end stuff, having come from entry level home (harman kardon 3370 receiver, sony cd player, and a pair of DIY MTM bookshelf speakers) and high end car audio. I'd appreciate any suggestions, brands to look at, etc. I'm fine with buying used gear as well. Some stuff that seems like it might be good is Musical Fidelity, Creek, Rotel, Arcam...I've seen these mentioned favorably quite often. Anywyas, any input is appreciated. Thanks! |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | Mr Peabody
Oct 6, 2003 7:41 PM | | The brands you mentioned are good. Arcam's cd players are unbeatable in their price points in my opinion and usually beat brands costing much more. Their amps are capable of driving difficult loads but may leave you wanting more horse power if you want the windows to shake. I'm assuming since you are into car audio you probably are used to heavy bass, so you may want to look at older Adcom gear like 52,53,5400 or 545,555 power amps. Rotel makes some beefy amps as well, but I personally find them slower paced than the likes of Creek or Arcam. |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 6, 2003 11:00 PM | | i will have a sub to fill out the bottom end and i plan on making my speakers biampable when i build them to allow for future power upgrades, so i think ill stick with a nice integrated for now and maybe look for an amp for the lows later if i find that lacking. |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | RGA
Oct 6, 2003 9:24 PM | | Are you looking for musical subtlety and refinement or LOUD brute force.
Under 1k and SS NEW I would take the Audio Refinement "Complete" integrated amp. Audio Refinemt is made by YBA and has the same design as the YBA Integre DT and most of the same parts...the main difference is that the Integre is made in France and costs $2500.00 and the Complete is made in the far east and costs $999.00. It's sounds beautiful with matching looks. Bass is tight and smooth but not terribly deep...if you have a speaker that is more bass heavey it would help.
Incidentally the Comnplete is one of the bargains of the high end world...It's a better integrated amp IMO than Any Arcam, Rotel, and I personally think it's better than the Creek 5350...which is closest in sound but significantly more money. It's also a good sign that YBA and Audio Refinement don't change models every year or two like Rotel and Arcam. If it's good it doesn't need to be changed all the time. http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/srajan01.htm
And saying that I'll add Sugden to the list because the A21a is the best integrated I have heard under 2k...and frankly I haven't heard one that's really that close...but the sound fits my taste of tubes...and a musical mid range instead of grainy and etched presentations typical of SS.
And since you asked...the Sugden has been selling since 1989 and still got a recommended compnant rating in this issue of the Absolute Sound. The A21a's draw back is 25 watt and no remote and runs very hot(but then it is pure class A). http://www.audiosynergy.co.uk/a21arev.htm
more current reviews http://www.jesugden.co.uk/a21rev.htm
And Hi Fi Choice reviews with a panel of listeners and in a blind session against similar priced amps. You can click on each amp for a full review and there are of course MANY other integrateds there you might be interested in...but the A21a if you can find it is simply brilliant. http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_list.asp?category=AMP&subcategory=INTGR
I don't have it...I wish. I got their lower end A48b used(used was my budget) - it has more power and valve sound...but doesn't have the soundstage and overall refinement. That said I liked it better then the Bryston B60, MF 300, Arcam Diva 85, Naim's present offerring, Nad's C370, Rotels bew models and even my favorite sub 1k amp the Antique Sound Labs Tube Integrated AQ1003DT.
Not flashy - no gimmicky features...no advertising, 30 years of brilliance. |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 6, 2003 10:58 PM | | that audio refinement complete looks like a nice piece; im a little concerned about all the commments ive seen regarding the arcam 85 as too laid back. im sure that 90 watts per channel will be plenty for my speakers, overall efficiency will be over 90 dB for sure. lets say i were to go with the "complete" to save some $$ over the a21, what would be a good cd player to match? one of the arcam units? |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | RGA
Oct 6, 2003 11:33 PM | | I would personally prefer buying a mega changer and a separate DAC if you should feel the need for one. As a transport they're as good as a 5k Theta or Wadia.
90db sensitivity? You don't need power you need quality. I'm about to get a set of Audio Note AN K speakers rated at 90db and I could run a 3wat set with them(Audio Note is noted for their low powered tubes and designed the speakers for that use). 25 Watts is more than enough with a 90db speaker provided the load doesn't dip too too much. The Complete is 50Watts and a 100 watt amp would only give you a 3db gain(barely audible).
You need ten times the power to get a perceived doubling of the volume level over a 50 watt amp...ie a 500 watt amp...and that only applies if the speaker can even take and use 500 watts. I have yet to meet a speaker like that for home audio. Most speakers can take 100 to 150 watts. A 5db gain at best.
Watts are the biggest and most overrated and hyped aspect of power as a relation to loudness. If the A21a can drive a Totem well at 4 ohms...it is clear watts are not an issue.
It depends on what you want from the amp. The Sugden is on the sweet side of neutral - the Complete is more straight up. The Arcam sounds a bit grainier and thin in the bass to me. The Audio refinement is a bit light too but sounds smoother so less an issue. A Dynamic speaker like the AN K and it doesn't matter but some speakers are a bit light in the loafers and the Complete isn't going to give you the fake bass.
I have the Arcam Delta 290 Integrated(though not for much longer) and I actually think it's a better amp than the A85. Newer is not always better IMO.
If you believe cd players make a difference and really want a single discer then I would look at Cambridge Audio... |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 7, 2003 5:37 PM | | I think the Audio Refinement Complete is the integrated for me. Now, what CD player would match well? I was thinking either the AR Complete CD, or the Arcam CD62 or CD72, whatever I can find for sale used. BTW, for cables, I'm gonna make my own RCAs and CAT5 speaker cables with bananas. I hate when people say that expensive cables make a big difference. If so, then what about the inferior metal connectors used in amps, crossovers, and those dreaded speaker terminals that no one ever sees unless they build their own speakers? Enough of that rant, any other suggestions for a nice CD player to match this integrated? |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | RGA
Oct 7, 2003 9:24 PM | | Well cd players are a contentious issue. More expensive is not necessaarily better. And just because it sounds "different" doesn't make it "better". I am a proponant of going cheap on the transport and getting piles of features. Hence my liking for the Sony 300 Disc player. The machine has a digital output to connect a external DAC. The player is under $200.00 and an external DAC can be had for $400.00 from MSB link Dac or from Audio Note etc. The MSB Link Dacs can all be upgraded as time goes by...rated class B in Stereophile's current issue.
Arcam makes good cd players too...it's their current strength.
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?276
http://www.onhifi.com/product/sony_cdpcx400.htm |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 7, 2003 10:40 PM | | i dont really want piles of features though. my cd collection doesnt just sit in my house; i spend a lot of time listening in my car, and im going to have 2 home setups by the time i get this one off the ground. i just want a nice single cd player for i guess "critical" listening. this will be the setup i listen to alone, not while driving, talking to people, doing homework, etc. so for good sound out of a single cd player for less than say $500 (new or used), is the arcam a good bet? |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | RGA
Oct 8, 2003 5:49 PM | | Arcam is certainly a good sounding well made cd player for the money.
Here are reviews of tons of cd players for you http://www.audiovideoreviews.com/digital_sources.shtml |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | PacoX
Oct 9, 2003 7:41 PM | | well, the designer whose speaker i was going to build has told me he's building something new that will be more suited to my needs. its a floorstanding 2 way MT, probably ported, with higher quality drivers than the other option i was considering. the woofer is what krell uses in their LATs, and the tweeter is excellent, although im not sure of any commercial designs using it. im not up on speakers, rather build my own, save money, and get better electronics. anyways, these speakers will have better upper and lower response, with a different midrange from the other speaker (no dedicated midrange in this one). they will be smaller and work better in smaller rooms, in addition to not producing the SPL of the other design. basically, a speaker with more finesse. i think the audio refinement complete will actually serve this speaker better than it would have the other. the sugden is tempting too though. anyways, thanks for all the advice, hopefully i will be able to commence building this summer. |
| re: Good amps/preamps/cd players for under $1000 each? | Paul L
Oct 13, 2003 9:22 AM | | You practically shortlisted most of the reputatable mid-level high end brands already. Amongst the list, I think Creek gives the most neutral and accurate sound. The new CD50 just won a group test in Hi-Fi World which included Arcam's new CD82T and Rega Planet. The Creek intergrated amp are all having passive pre section so all your money are putting in the poweramp section.
An excellent power amp that can be consider in your price range is the Monarchy SM70-Pro. Quote the brand's slogan "High End at Low Cost".
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc. |
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