|   If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | ouzoswiller
Apr 17, 2001 1:07 PM | | would I use identical type (gauge, brand) for both high and low frequency termainals? Does it matter? (currently 12 ga Ultralink) Is it worth it? |
| re: If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | bobbybrady
Apr 17, 2001 3:17 PM | | I've heard mixed things on that. I know bi-amping is supposed to be better for sure, but bi wiring, it's up in the air. i think it has a lot to do with your crossover (if you have a good crossover, it doesn't make much of an improvement, etc). let's hear what others have to say... |
| re: If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | Jon Risch
Apr 17, 2001 8:03 PM | | In my personal opinion, yes, it would be worth a try. But it would also be wise to have cable return priveledges if you did not think that the sound was different/better etc.
See:
All about bi-wiring, the hows and whys
http://members.nbci.com/Jon_Risch/biwiring.htm
Jon Risch |
| re: If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | mtrycrafts
Apr 17, 2001 9:13 PM | | No, it is not worth it. But, if you like to worry about non events, go and buy-wire, That 12ga should be fine. |
| re: If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | ChrisR
Apr 18, 2001 5:32 PM | | how do you know? |
| re: If I was to bi-wire... is it worth it? | mtrycrafts
Apr 18, 2001 9:35 PM | | Lack of supporting data?
How do you know? |
| It's a waste of time | Eyespy
Apr 17, 2001 10:10 PM | | And money. Unless you just like the looks or have some other preference concern for bi-wiring. But if you expect it to improve the sound, fuggedaboudit. |
| It's a waste of time | bozak
Apr 18, 2001 12:29 PM | | not on klipsch reference speakers it isnt...
at first i didnt bi-wire them and the sound wasnt anywhere
near as full as it was before bi-wiring. those gold plates
they have joining the speakers dont do anything for them.
maybe it would have sounded the same way if i had just ran
the same wire through both posts(???)... |
| It's worth it to somebody | Norm Strong
Apr 18, 2001 2:35 PM | | As they say, " 'Tis an ill wind that blows nobody good."
I'm sure bi-wiring is a definite plus for the wire industry, especially the audiophile wire industry. How much of your coin are you willing to donate to that worthy industry? |
| It's worth it to somebody | george2
Apr 18, 2001 4:55 PM | | I wonder why speaker companies (Paradigm) recommend it, if its all bogus. Are they all part of a vast, wire-ring conspiracy? You'd think a speaker company would have enough experience with its own product to know whether it made a difference. Just a thought. g |
| It's worth it to somebody | MajorDump
Apr 18, 2001 7:52 PM | | Good point. Unless people think that bi-wireable and bi-ampable speakers are made just to give wire compainies kick backs. And of course speaker makers have no engineers, a sales and marketing department only. |
| By the way | mtrycrafts
Apr 18, 2001 9:44 PM | | When I called Paradigm on this, they couldn't support their recommendation with DBT listening tests or any listening tests. And, yes, they do have the facility for DBT speaker testing as that is part of their engineering protocol and evaluations. Yes, you can DBT speakers too. |
| By the way | MajorDump
Apr 21, 2001 8:08 AM | | Couldn't or wouldn't? Who are you? That is what they are thinking. |
| By the way | mtrycrafts
Apr 22, 2001 9:13 PM | | Yep, they have no need to support it, right, for anyone.
Think again, if you can. |
| By the way | Dupper
Apr 21, 2001 9:44 AM | | I am going to have to pull your trick on this one. I will need to see evidence that you talked to Paradigm. Otherwise, empty claim, and unsupported. |
| By the way | mtrycrafts
Apr 22, 2001 9:15 PM | | Trick? Want to see my phone bill? I saved it just for you. Or, you can call them for yourself, talk to the engineering department, if you are able, and ask for their basis of this recommendation, DBT data of course. |
| By the way | Dupper
Apr 23, 2001 4:37 PM | | Lets see the phone bill |
| By the way | Dupper
Apr 23, 2001 4:48 PM | | Why should I call, your claim. Burden of proof is on you. |
| It's worth it to somebody | mtrycrafts
Apr 18, 2001 9:49 PM | | >>>I wonder why speaker companies (Paradigm) recommend it, if its all bogus. <<<
Simple. They don't want to lose business to those who believe. Happens all the time.
Here is a thread from REc Audio High End web:
>>>>>>>>
Subject: Bi-wiring: Yet another opinion on the merits
From: "Alan Dana" alan_dana@hotmail.com
Date: 4/14/01 8:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!
Message-id: <9bab8e$n0d$1@bourbaki.localdomain>
I was browsing through the January '01 Stereophile and came upon Sam Tellig's
review of the JMlab Micro Utopia speaker. A couple of paragraphs in it caught
my
eye:
"Like the rest of the Utopia line, the Micro Utopia does not allow for
bi-wiring ...
However, according to Daniel Jacques, cultural prejudices had nothing to
do with the decision to go for single wiring:
"JMlab did comparative listening tests with and without and couldn't hear any
improvement with biwiring.""
For those not familiar with the JMlab Utopia line, three of these speakers are
currently listed in the Stereophile Class A list, and another, the Grand
Utopia,
is proclaimed by some as the best speaker on the planet.
This matches my experience with biwiring. I own three sets of biwired cables,
and use them in two of my systems. But have never been able to tell them
apart
from single wires in blind comparisons.
Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
| It's worth it to somebody | ChrisR
Apr 22, 2001 5:50 AM | | Do you know why Jacques Mahul has not found any improvement when bi-wiring his speakers? Because when he made his speakers, he optimized the system to work with a single wire. Jacques Mahul believes that if the x-over/speaker system is well done, there's no need to bi-wire. How about bi-amping? He believes that if you have pwerful and dynamic amplification, there's no need for bi-amping. His speakers are made for those who can afford $10,000+ amps. That's all. For some speakers and amps setups, you'll benefit from bi-wiring or bi-amping, based on my experience. I used to have an Arcam8 intgrated amp only. The day I did add a Arcam 8 power amp to bi-amp my speakers, the improvements were audible to anyone including you(more bass punch, better imaging, more dynamics...). |
| It's worth it to somebody | mtrycrafts
Apr 22, 2001 9:10 PM | | >>>For some speakers and amps setups, you'll benefit from bi-wiring or bi-amping, based on my experience. <<<<
And your experience is based on bias free, DBT listeing? If not, your experiences are subject to false perceptions and unreliable outcome, hence cannot be taken seriously. |
| It's worth it to somebody | ChrisR
Apr 23, 2001 10:55 AM | | I agree totally. That's why it takes years of experimentation. As for Bias, I don't care if I have radio shack or top of the line Kimber anymore, I have lots of cables in my closet and don't buy them. |
| It's worth it to somebody | Markw*
Apr 23, 2001 8:02 AM | | "The day I did add a Arcam 8 power amp to bi-amp my speakers, the improvements were audible to anyone"
I don't see where anyone is disputing the possible benefits of correctly done bi amping, do you?
It's bi wiring that seems to have stirred up this controversy. I do believe that, among others, a certain highly respected Scandanavian speaker system manufacturer also eschews bi wiring as not producing any real benefits.
And, by reading these forums lately, many mid fi speakers would simply not sell unless they allow the bi wiring option. For them, it's simply a marketing decision much like the glitzy chrome plated "tweeter horns" on white van speakers. |
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