|   Power Cables revisited | Warren Warren
Jun 10, 2002 12:00 PM | | Thank you to everyone who replied to my "Open letter to a cable company" post. Unfortunately, no one from a cable company replied. Many of you in both camps brought up some good and valid points, most of which I was already aware of, but on in particular relates to this thread. That was the mention of relying on memory. How does this relate to power cords? Let me explain:
Someone offered me the use of his power cords to see if I could be convinced that they do indeed make a difference, knowing full well that I am not a believer in them. In any case, I wanted to be impartial and give them a fair shake, just for the sake of trying them out. However, I have run across a major problem with the testing of power cords that does not exist with that of interconnect or speaker cables. That of an extremely long switchover time. I have been able to test both interconnects and speaker cables side-by-side using the same components with only a few milliseconds of switchover time, with the source playing continously. However, when it comes to power cords, there is no setup that I am aware of that will allow a similar test procedure. The time delays in comparing power cords are much too long. While many mission critical computer servers have redundant hot-swappable power supplies, I have not seen any audio gear with redundant power supplies. This means that any time a power cord needs to be changed, the source needs to be paused, the piece of gear with the power cord needs to be turned off, the cord needs to be substituted, the gear needs to be turned on again, and needs to warm up again. Obviously, this process takes several minutes. This relies far too much on auditory memory, and I seriously doubt (even if I DID believe in the benefit of them) that I would be able to do a fair comparison. One way I could see testing them would be using 2 identical pairs of speakers and 2 identical pairs of level matched amplifiers, a common source, and a way to mute/unmute the amplifers, and of course the speakers would have to be either out of doors in a large open space, or in an anechoic chamber. This is certainly not practical, but I suppose it is possible. So, for those who put faith in power cords, I apologize that I promised a fair an impartial test before I realized the difficulties in establishing such. |
| I just did a PC test between cooked and un-cooked cords | nOrhbert
Jun 10, 2002 12:40 PM | | A manufacturer offered to send me two cords for testing to see if I could determine whether there was a sonic difference between a cord that was put in a cable cooker and one that had not been cooked. Both cords were identical except one had a red band on it and the other a black band for identification purposes. I used the cord on my cdp and was able to turn the cdp off, switch cords, turn the cdp back on with music playing in about 15 seconds. I couldn't hear ANY differences no matter how much I tried, and even if there was some minute sonic difference or improvement that one of the cords provided, I forgot all about it in those 15-20 seconds. Then for fun I put the stock cords into the mix and compared them to the aftermarket cords. Results? No difference. And I WANTED to hear SOMETHING as I've read many many reviews that start out by saying 'I couldn't believe what a difference my (insert name of high buck PC ->here) made when I tried it with my cdp'. I heard no differences in hours of testing with some of my favorite discs. Why not get two identical cdps from Circuit City (30 day return policy on them) and put a aftermarket PC on one, plug both into the same integrated amp on different input jacks, play the same cd on both at the same time and switch back and forth between the two with a remote? If there really are striking sonic differences, you're going to hear them I would think. BTW: why are you guys so worried about all this anyway?? |
| Sorry-that was me ETR who posted the above just now not nOrhbert | eric the red
Jun 10, 2002 12:46 PM | | I was logged in as nOrhbert who is my housemate and uses the same computer to post |
| power amplifiers. whereas i personally havent been present for any of these tests, i seems to me that IF differences are to be perceived, a power amp, or perhaps a preamp would be the place they would make the most difference.
im basically cheeeep, and big bux on ANY piece of wire seems unnecessary to me at my level of equipment, but if i ever get into the large krell or vtl league, i'll experiiment then.
ICs are another story (except i wont spend BIG bux on those either). i hear differences that make enough of a difference for me to change now and then. pbj from cd to preamp is a good example.
btw, identical CDPs can sound slightly different, and that could color that sort of test.
.....regards.......tr | hifitommy
Jun 15, 2002 11:48 AM | | approved |
| re: Power Cables revisited | FLZapped
Jun 10, 2002 4:41 PM | | No problem, you just need a make before break switching circuit.
-Bruce |
| re: Power Cables revisited | mtrycrafts
Jun 10, 2002 10:58 PM | | Even with a rapid switch that you claim you can do, no doubt, playing the CD continuously will compare two different segments, not the same note/s in the two components. The only thing that would be of minimal difference is at the instance of the switch but that is too short of music to judge.
In codec DBTs, at times a single note is looped to have the same note in both codecs compared.
So, even rapid switching is a challange, let alone a swap, continus play, etc. That doesn't stop many from imagining though :)
Yes, it is about memory, no matter how you slice it, even the paint chip comparison:) Best if you don't worry about trivial aspects of audio. Worry about your speakers, room and recording :)Then you wouldn't have to worry about protocol and just enjoy it :) |
| You raise an interesting point. | pctower
Jun 13, 2002 2:16 AM | | Warren:
First of all, thanks for trying to spare me the embarrasment of disguising my identity as the guy who sent you the expensive power cables that you and your buddies laugh at. Wasn't necessary.
However, I got to thinking about your comments and realized that I've never paid much attention to the time it takes to switch cables. It seems to me that if the perceived differences between two cables is so slight (if such difference exists at all) that the difference can only be detected with very quick switching, then the difference is virtually meaningless.
Any thoughts? |
| You raise an interesting point. | Warren Warren
Jun 13, 2002 12:39 PM | | I think that is the point exactly- any differences (again, I don't think there are any) could not be reliably detected, even by the most willing ears, just due to the large time lapse. I have a setup where I can switch between speaker cables and/or interconnects instantaneously, and it is a lot easier to do a test this way. Again, I DO think audio cables can make a difference in the final output, but... you know the rest. I did plug them into my system, and they certainly worked, but I could not tell any difference, and I only had one freind come over to listen, and he couldn't either. Of course, these were certainly not controlled (or unbiased) circumstances, but I did want to give them a fair shot. BTW, the warren@netkonnect.net email is down at the moment, so don't think I have been blowing you off. I will send them back to you Tuesday, and I appreciate the loan even if I didn't help prove your point. Thanks!
WW |
| You raise an interesting point. | pctower
Jun 13, 2002 6:17 PM | | Warren:
Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to prove anything. You had said you would be interested in trying some power cables if anyone would send them to you, I was going on vacation and was happy to have you try them out. That was all. |
| You raise an interesting point. | mtrycrafts
Jun 14, 2002 11:02 PM | | b that the difference can only be detected with very quick switching,
If then. But, that quick switching does give you the advantage and why shouldn't you have every bit of advantage? |
| You raise an interesting point. | pctower
Jun 18, 2002 3:25 AM | | b why shouldn't you have every bit of advantage?
Because I'm not trying to win an argument. I have personal experiences that are contrary to what some audiophiles believe and are not supported by scientific evidence.
I'm simply interested in the truth as an intellectual exercise. As I have stated previously, even if I knew intellectually that it was beyond dispute that audible differences did not exist, I don't know if this intellectual knowledge would alter my personal experiences. I know this gross imperfection in the process human evolution, which is so aptly revealed in the form of my personage, drives the Spock crowd wild, but to probably quote Jim, Ill do it my way. |
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