|   HEY PHIL! | FLZapped
Oct 18, 2003 4:14 AM | | Your buddy is at it again....
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/83494.html
I'm sure you'll have plenty of comments for him after you look down the thread a bit.....
-Bruce |
| re: HEY PHIL! | pctower
Oct 18, 2003 5:44 AM | | To me there is something truly insidious that goes on over at AA and it transcends issues normally involved with audio, and cables specifically.
In my opinion, at a board such as AA where they have such proactive moderation of the boards, the moderators should all be attempting to set a good example. But Jon Risch is just the opposite. He consistently breaks the rule against personal attacks and yet will delete a thread or ban someone for the flimsiet of reasons if they challenge him or his phony science in any way.
Then there are Curl and Hansen. They repeatedly engage in personal attacks and vendettas without every even being cautioned, and Rod lets them get away with it. At the same time he stood by and allowed the banning of Steve Eddy at the Cable Asylum and suggested to Steve he be a little less contentious at the other boards.
Other than jneutron and occasional forays by you and some of the other regulars here, all of the good guys have thrown up their hands and left AA. I guess that some have migrated to diyaudio.com, but I'm having difficulty adjusting to the particular format over there.
In any event, someone like Curl really turns my stomach. Not only is he abussive, but his cowardly manner of attacking others for well throught out technical arguments while absolutely refusing to engage in any substantive discussion himself is pathetic.
Jon has been relatively quiet since his accident, but the thread you referred me to suggests he is re-emerging with all of his same old behaviors in tact. Unlike Curl, Jon will engage in technical discussion. But as a Bored member, if someone points out his errors he simply gets them banned or deletes their posts.
Hopefully, if diyaudio.com is where reasonable, knowledgeable and intelligent audio people are gravitating to in order to carry on rational technical discussion, I'll be able to get used to the format.
Have a good week-end and keep up the good work, Bruce. At least you, Richard and some others still try to maintain a little balance over at AA. I finally gave up, dropped my registration and haven't posted over there in over 3 months. At times I feel like I wimped out, but I finally came to the conclusion that given the arbitrary way Rod runs that board and the presence of guys like Curl who are allowed to rape, plunder and pillage without consequence, it just wasn't worth it. |
| BTW, Bruce | pctower
Oct 18, 2003 5:53 AM | | Have you noticed that the PropHead Board and Tech Squared have virtually died recently? I don't think I'm the only one who feels the way I do about that place.
And if there isn't going to be any reasonable, substantive technical discussions on those two boards, then such discussions simply won't occur anywhere at AA. |
| BTW, Bruce | FLZapped
Oct 18, 2003 5:22 PM | | I haven't been on the T-squared board since my first view of it shortly after it's inception. It looked like a complete waste of time. Prop-head has become so. To many egos and not enough substance.
-Bruce |
| re: HEY PHIL! | FLZapped
Oct 18, 2003 5:25 PM | | One would have thought that Jon would have re-thought his life after his wreck, apparently not. He might not survive the next warning.
-Bruce |
| The flames they are a risin'- get out fore the place burns down | skeptic
Oct 18, 2003 10:57 AM | | The supposed purpose of the anti DBT discussion rule at CA was that it would prevent flame wars and rancor. Well it doesn't seem to have worked. They still manage to have flame wars over there, and I think far more than here. So what could the real purpose be?
When I pointed out Risch's obvious mistakes here, he couldn't delete me or ban me so he left. I don't see him around here any more and if he ever comes back, we can pick up his logical inconsistancies and obvious mistakes right where the last discussion left off.
While there is nothing inherently wrong besides the inordinate extra cost with using the braids of two coaxes (each shunted at both ends to the center conductor of the other, when the gage gets down to 19, it's much too small for anything but the shortest runs because the dc resistance will be too high. In the famous Stereo Review blind test showing no significant statistical difference between 16 gage zip cord and monster cable, there was a strong statistical difference of both with 18 gage speaker wire and it was judged to be definitely worse. It would not surprise me if 19 equivalent gage coax and 18 gage zip cord have a lot in common audio wise as speaker cables. I for one would not use it. |
| The flames they are a risin'- get out fore the place burns down | mtrycrafts
Oct 18, 2003 11:40 PM | | The 3rd cable in the Stereo Review, Greenhill experiment was 24 ga, not 18. |
| Again you show your memory is better than mine(nt) | skeptic
Oct 19, 2003 7:30 AM | | |
| Again you show your memory is better than mine(nt) | mtrycrafts
Oct 19, 2003 11:36 PM | | Just happen to have that on hand and has been discussed over the years a few times:) |
| What is this coax for? | Norm Strong
Oct 18, 2003 12:41 PM | | Nowhere is there mention of what signal is being sent down the cable. Speaker? Preamp? Microphone?
If it's a speaker, there are a couple of 50 ohm coax cables that will do an admirable job. I don't have the numbers available to me right at this moment, but both are equivalent to about AWG12 wire, and both have substantially less inductance (about 1/3 as much.) |
| What is this coax for? | skeptic
Oct 18, 2003 1:03 PM | | This is Jon Risch's DIY speaker cables. You tape two coaxes together. At each end you solder the central one conductor to the braid of the other being careful not to short anything out. Now isn't that ingenious. He has a whole web site devoted to his great ideas, how he evaluates them, and why his are as good as anybody elses. Now wouldn't you just love to hear the results of a DBT between his and say Ray Kimber's, John Curl's or Peter Qvortrup's? You could publish it right here and start world war III over there. I'm surprised someone who was once in this business doesn't try it just for the fun of stirring up a little trouble. Say someone who likes stirring up trouble. |
| What is this coax for? | Norm Strong
Oct 19, 2003 4:33 PM | | As I recall, the center conductor of the Risch cable is in parallel with the shield of the other cable. Since the center conductor has about 5 times the resistance of the shield (as I recall) the shield will conduct over 80% of the current. You might as well forget the center conductor!
It's even worse than that, since the center conductor adds to the capacitance anyway. |
| What is this coax for? | skeptic
Oct 19, 2003 5:24 PM | | Yes you are right. That's exactly how it's configured. And I'll bet he thought when it first occurred to him and still thinks it's damned clever. Actually it virtually worthless. Someone at the Stereohaulics site built and tested it and found it utterly unremarkable and actually didn't even perform as well as lamp cord. I'm sure you can find the test report and judge for yourself. At least if you built it and didn't like it, you can take it apart and recycle it for a lot of TV and VCR video jumper cables. Between wiring my old house and making jumpers and adding wiring for this new one, I went through 2000 feet of it. At 10 cents a foot it wasn't much to complain about. |
| What is this coax for? | FLZapped
Oct 25, 2003 4:36 AM | | Well, might make a good rf transformer....
-Bruce |
| What is this coax for? | FLZapped
Oct 18, 2003 5:21 PM | | Yeah, it was for speakers. Yeah, you can get away with using the larger stuff. Originally it looked like he might have been thinking about using the RG-59/6 style stuff.
It's just much more bulky than regular wire and somewhere down the line, someone could not know it was being used for speaker cabling and......well, who knows.....
-Bruce |
| Now that I'm home, | Norm Strong
Oct 22, 2003 8:17 PM | | I can tell you the part numbers of the 50 ohm coax cables that can be used as speaker wire. Belden 8214 and 8237. Both are RG/8 and use all copper conductors and shield, equivalent to about AWG11 zip cord. They are stiff, however, and cost almost $2/foot. I would certainly not recommend such coax unless your speakers were unusually sensitive to inductance. |
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