|   Smokey or some tv guy help please | beerme1
Aug 15, 2001 7:46 AM | | Hey Smokey you seem to be the tv guy here so I thought I would ask you for some help if you dont mind. I was planning on purchasing a new Toshiba 65HX81. Then I started leaning towards a smaller Pioneer Elite
but now I am taking a step back.
The reason is this whole firewire, 5c, ie standard issue as well as the burn in factor that is scaring me away. I will be watching a lot of sports and playing a lot of X Box on the new screen, as well as watching a lot of dvds. I also was considering a new Sony 40" tube the 700XBR but am not sold on laying down $3500 for it and then having the standards change.
This is my current line of thinking, tell me what you think. I have seen a JVC I think it was a 36" D 301 or 302 or 501 or 502 im not sure
but it has a component input and cost is between $800-$1000. I do remember last time I was in the store thinking that I liked the picture better than on the comparable Toshibas. The other tv would be a Panasonic 36" flat screen I believe a Tauu for $1399.
Should I buy one of these and let the whole standard issue sort itself out? therby getting a good screen for now, and not worrying about having a compatable tv that cost thousands and being a dud in a year or two? Thanks. |
| Here is couple of things to think about | Smokey
Aug 15, 2001 2:19 PM | | Hi beerme1
Thanks for your comments but I have to make some correction:
>Hey Smokey you seem to be the TV guy here so I thought I would ask you for some help if you don't mind
The real TV guy( Guru) around here is Woodman because you can not match 50 years of experience in TV industry and I hope he make some comments too.
You are right about HD not being finalized as far as standardizing is concerned. The equipment and decoder you will buy today might be an old technology by the time HD really take-off in 5 years ( if it take off ).
You said you saw Panasonic Tau 36 inch ( I hope you talking about this model 36HX41 ) for $1399. That is a very good buy. I think as you know it is Progressive-Scan capable and does 16:9 squeeze which both will improve your DVD playing pleasure. Also I kind like Flat screen. IMO, the picture and color quality of Flat tube from Panasonic and Sony can not be match from non-flat tube from Toshiba and JVC. The only draw back in this case would be price and in case of Sony built quality as Sony only carry three months warranty, Panasonic carry one year warranty.
Having said above statements then you will also have option of considering JVC and Toshiba 36 inches as these two models seem to be the top dog in picture quality and reliability and they are very reasonable price. I saw Toshiba 36 inch for $799 at BB and probably get it cheaper if your local Sears price match with Internet prices as Sears do carry JVC 36D501 and Toshiba 36A41/51/61.
So if I were you, I would consider Toshiba or JVC ( on Toshiba 36A41/A51
you can only use two input at the same time. On 36A61 you have option of using three separate inputs. On JVC 36 "D" series you will option of three inputs via On-Screen-Dispay ). These two model from Toshiba and JVC came on top of rating for 36 inch TV from CosumerMagazine and both carry one year warranty. Although I like Toshiba picture slightly better than JVC ( I love Toshiba's FST SuperBalck for its color accuracy ) but JVC is always ranked right up there with Toshiba.
You could also consider Panasonic Tau HX41 ( do not consider Panasonic "G" or "D" series as they have received bad reveiws ) because of PS and Squeeze capability( you will need a PS DVD player) but you have to pay extra for these features. So it is here that you have to make decision as which route you want to take.
I also would get comments from Woodman ( 50 years experience) and Brad ( have tried all the 36 inch TVs in the world )
I hope that helped. |
| Calling WOODMAN, BRAD- or any body else.. | Smokey
Aug 15, 2001 2:25 PM | | Could you all please make comments about the TVs Beerme1 is considering. I can not match the experience you all have with 36 inch TVs or RPTV.
Thanks alot. |
| I'm here, I'm here, I'm here | woodman
Aug 15, 2001 9:04 PM | | Beerman:
I'll be very happy to give you my slant on all of this, and I'll try to give you some perspectives on what's really important and what really isn't.
There's always the question of money ... it rears its ugly head every time you turn around, doesn't it? Well, at least for most people, it does. If you happen to be someone to whom money is NOT an issue, then let me know right away and I'll go away quietly and say no more.
If money is a consideration for you, the main thing that I would advise is most definitely an RPTV over a direct-view. The main reason being the cost of the CRT in a direct-view vs. the cost of three 7" CRTs in an RPTV. No contest! The RPTV can have its jugs replaced for an acceptable cost - the direct-view becomes "toast" when it's CRT gives out. Add to this, the fact that virtually ALL large CRTs suffer from geometry and focus issues among other things, and it becomes foolhardy in my view to opt for a 36" direct-view when for about the same money (or hardly much more), you can have an RPTV with a picture that's so much bigger and therefore just more enjoyable to watch.
Rear-projection TV has improved radically over the years, to a point where today I feel that those who claim the direct-views to produce substantially better pictures are just flat-out wrong. If I were out shopping for a new TV set today, I wouldn't consider a large direct-view for even a minute - I would only look at RPTVs, and if I had sufficient coinage, I would look at only 16:9 screen HDTV-ready models to prepare for what's coming (and already here at least part of the time for some people). Neither would I lay awake even one night worrying about format alterations, "fire-wire", copy-protection issues, etc. It'll all get ironed out eventually. Meantime ... let's enjoy to the fullest what we already have.
Hope this helps you - I could go on for hours about this subject
woodman |
| And the Woodman checks in. | beerme1
Aug 15, 2001 9:35 PM | | Thanks Woodman. Money is always an issue. Even if I were flush, I would not want to give it up on stupid decesions. This encoding issue is not something I would normally worry about as I am a carefree kind of kind of guy that doesnt to look back after making a decision, no matter what it is. But I see horror stories elsewhere about burn in, especially from video games and watching sports 4:3 native aspect on a 16:9 tv, keep in mind that the X Box will be a frequently on display. I really want the 16:9 format and HD.
I also was told by a dealer that in about 2 months the new Pioneer Elites will be out and with a price drop of approx. $1000. He says the Elites are the bar that others try to attain. I really like the value of the Toshibas, and have a couple month wait anyway for the 65HX81 to come out so it will be a good time to compare.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I wholeheartedly agree that we all should enjoy what we have, while we have it because who knows what tomorrow brings.
p.s. I guess I would be remiss if I didn't fess up and say I think the big 16:9 rptv's are a very cool piece of equipment also.
Cheers |
| Sorry so late | Brad-
Aug 16, 2001 2:32 PM | | Well, I don't agree with Woodman but I'm no expert for sure.
For playing games, I would not go with a projection television because of the chance of burn in. In fact, that was one of my main hesitations in not going with rear projection.
While many will argue that I'm wrong, I can only go by my eyes. Not all projection television PQ equal direct view quality.
First, I like the cheaper Sony rear projectors but they are rated very badly for "BURN IN" and other problems, but have the closest picture or equal picture to a direct view.
Toshiba's and Hitachi's lower cost rear projection sets, have very apparent hanging dots. Their pictures aren't as focused and bright as direct views.
All rear projection televisions must be a good distance away from sitting area also because when the viewer is off to the sides, the picture is much dimmer.
When you go up to the more expensive rear projection sets($2000), they usually have line doublers and much better comb filter. Their pictures can rival focus(detail) on direct view set pictures, and sometimes beat them. Unfortunately, being to the sides still dims the picture.
The side dimming isn't a huge problem but a minor inconvenience. Nothing like the older rear projection which were nearly impossible to watch from the sides.
I wouldn't go with a HDTV set because there is no standards set. When the DVI(digital video interface) standard goes into place, it will make all current HDTV ready(only analog ready) obsolete as the studios can't put copyprotection on the analog stream. They will eventually force analog outputs to be downmixed to 480 interlaced. Most sets are not even compatible with 720p and if that becomes the standard, there is still incompatibility.
IMO, HDTV is a waste until standards are established.
What do I recommend? A direct view JVC AV36D302! I went through them all and JVC was the best.
Toshiba's color was more violet compared to all other sets, and I don't care for the that. This isn't just tint, but also the actual color. The Toshiba's I had also were inflicted with the very popular moire problem. Toshibas in my opinion are the worst. I in-home auditioned 36A60s and demo recently the 36A41 and 36A(51 or 61?)
Sony S series I had grounding and shielding problems with, and their tubes aren't black and can't produce real blacks.
Sony Wega geometry was the worst I've seen. While vertical and horizontal lines don't bow, the horizontal lines bend in to the corners and the vertical lines are wavy. Many have complained about very poor convergence in many areas in the review section here.
Philips had tuner shielding problems on dual tuner models, had convergence problems, and had some type of strange stray RF noise that disabled my DVD player's remote control.
Panasonics viewed only on demo, just didn't seem to have as good PQ.
One note, I finally broke down and took my Video Essentials DVD into Sears to check geometry on all the 36" sets. They all are bad, no doubt about it. My JVC has the bottom right corner curve up toward the center about 1/4" more than the right side. Toshiba, Sony S, RCA, Panasonic, and "SONY WEGA", were no better and sometimes worst. To me, this is just shocking when 27" sets usually have very good geometry. To me, I deal with the less than ideal geometry to gain the big picture, it's worth it to me.
Remember, this is only my opinion, so just use my statement as a tip and do your own research. |
| Better late than never........ | Smokey
Aug 17, 2001 5:05 AM | | Man, I would have loved to seen the expression on the Sears's salesperson face while you were messing with their TV with all kind of odd shapes and images you were putting on screen with help of Calibration disc. They probably thought you were from some kind of government inspection agency (:^)). |
| Better late than never........ | Brad-
Aug 21, 2001 8:56 AM | | Yeh, since everything on display was not connected and was just for cosmetics(typical crappy Sears demo), the sales manager had to get a DVD player out of the display, find cables, and then watch my every move. He finally let me alone, after he seen I was taking my time.
In the store, the geometry on those sets originally looked better than mine by a good margin. After I set up the DVD with test patterns, geometry problems were easily seen, and then the sales manager seen why I wanted to use my VE disc. The panasonic set was a bit worse than mine, Sony Wega much worse, and none were better on geometry.
As with moire, sets just look better on a store demo where problems are down played by bright lights, television placement, and relative distance between set and viewer.
I can finally rest and know that I'm simply not going to get any better PQ on a 36" set according to my preferences, unless a perfect flat screen is born. |
| re: Which Panasonic model you are talking? Anyway read inside.. | Kirit
Aug 15, 2001 5:25 PM | | I think you are talking Panasonic 36SX31 non HD regular Tau. The HD capable is for around 1600.
Ok now back to tube or RPTV? If I am getting something like Sony Wega 36XBR 450 (around 1950) or Panasonic 36HX41 (around 1600) then I am getting the very best possible TVs. The picture quality is excellent. But in that price range you can get big screen TV (I mean RPTV).
You have to decide whether the sharpness and quality in 36' TV you want or you want big screen around 56' HD capbale RPTV where you will not have that good picture (compared to 36') but vey big picture. As they say bigger the better rule applies here. If you buy non HD 36' TV now, probably after some time you may regret your decision for buying non HDTV.
Now the problem of firewire, 5c is new one. But that will be the problem for so many others (in millions) also. Do you think all these companies will let go the chance of making some kind of box which will allow to do just fine like firewire, 5c? I dont think so. Everybody will try to make money by making a new box suitable for old TV (then, new now).
The kind of hobby you have I think you will be better off having a widescreen or regular (4:3) RPTV.
Nobody can predict the future trend in Electronics.
Hope it has helped.
All the best.
Kirit |
| re: Which Panasonic model you are talking? Anyway read inside.. | beerme1
Aug 15, 2001 9:08 PM | | Thanks Smoke, and Kirit. You are correct that the panny I refered to was the ct-36sx31 and I have seen it as low as $1169 from Crazy Eddie.
Im somewhat skeptical about a box that could take the firewire, dvi issue and basically switch it to component or svideo. Although av receivers are now switching composite to svideo so maybe it will be possible. Thanks again. Any other thoughts are appreciated. |
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