|   Mixing and matching speaker brands: OK or insane? | emvan
Nov 29, 2001 11:34 PM | | I'm upgrading from 2 to 6.1 channels, the two being my beloved Vandersteen 2C's. Vandersteen's center channel speaker is kinda awkward (and, of course, it's a conventional design rather than the baffle-less design which is the raison d'etre of the company).
The center channel speaker everyone seems to love is the Paradigm/CC, and I've bought Paradigm bookshelp speakers in the past and thought they were amazing for the bucks. However, Sound and Vision thought the Paradigm ADP-370's, with their unconventional dipole design, weren't very good for music (which is half my listening) but (in a separate review by a different reviewer) didn't have that problem with the Boston Acoustics VR-MX and VR-MEX (also an unconventional design, BTW).
So, my question is: am I risking trouble by going with speakers from three different manufacturers (or four if you count the Hsu sub I'm leaning towards)? Or do systems like this sometimes integrate just fine? |
| re: Mixing and matching speaker brands: OK or insane? | philiog
Nov 30, 2001 5:46 AM | | The feedback that I have gotten on this, because I have been talking about the same thing lately, was that you would want to stay with the same brand, type and quality of speakers for the front left and right and the center channel. Reason being is that these speakers work so closely with each other that you would hear some strange things if the left and right speakers were one brand and quality and the center channel was completely different. The rears can be different because they are just effect speakers and the Sub can be different because bass is just bass. There may be conflicting answers out there but this is what I have been hearing. |
| re: Mixing and matching speaker brands: OK or insane? | emvan
Nov 30, 2001 8:48 AM | | I think this makes very good sense. What I'm wondering is whether, at this price and neutrality range, you can get away with violating the principle. The Vandersteens are relatively expensive and hence quite neutral; ditto for the two center channel speakers. But the Paradigm is better liked, better looking, and, IIRC, somewhat less expensive . . . hence my dilemma. |
| OK to me | gil
Nov 30, 2001 8:53 AM | | hi,
i have had two setups, the first was when i was upgrading like yourself, and had no idea there was even a site like this on the net. i knew zero. and while i thought it would be cool to have matching speakers for looks anyway, i couldnt find a sansui cc, mutch less any sansui speakers. so i picked up a DCM cc and so my set up consisted of sansui mains, dcm center, and sony rears with no sub. i was happy and thoght my system, (comnplete with sharp 25 inch coax in only tv)
rocked!, then a high end stero store in austin, tx had a fire and all their stuff had "light smoke damage" so insurance paid for it, and they liquidated everything half of cost. a friend sent me an email with the gear and i headed up to buy a marantz cd burner for $150
but i walked away with two snell xa60's for 400 for the pair, it was at this moment that i started looking on the net to find out more about them, came across this site, and have been into ht ever since,
i too had read that all your front speakers should match because they are timbre matched at the factory and stuff, and that the center channel was most important, so i rushed back to buy a matching cc but they didnt have one, i picked up a snell subwoofer, and snell surrounds, at this point i could tell my dcm center channel,(wich i thought to be cool) totally sucked, so i bought i niles cc from the guy. the niles sounds great, and i still cant tell a difference with the front soundstage, all i know is that everything sounds a hundred times better. maybe their are some old men out there who after years of expireance can tell in a blind hearing test, but for me i cant.
hope this helps, sorry so long, slow day at work today. |
| re: Mixing and matching speaker brands: OK or insane? | beerdog
Nov 30, 2001 10:58 AM | | I vote for insane. It will work, but if you're to the point where you can appreciate Vandersteen speakers, you will most likely be disappointed with the results.
I recently purchased the matching center for my B&W 602S2 and was very amazed at the improvement. I was using a B&W CC3 as a center which is part of the model series below the 600 series speakers. I assumed, as may probably would, that being from same manufacturer should be good enough. In this case it wasn't. |
| My opinion... | Monstrous Mike
Nov 30, 2001 11:04 AM | | First and foremost, I strongly recommend getting a quality center speaker, on par with the quality of your main speakers.
Second, the reason we try to match not only the speaker brand, but the speaker model, is to achieve timbre-matching. This usually means the tweeter is the same in the fronts as the center.
As an example, if a car was to travel from left to right across your soundstage (i.e. from left front to center to right front), you would want the car to sound the same right across your room. If you center speaker is different from you mains, the car may sound different during the transition which may not be entirely pleasing.
IMHO, with the quality of fronts that you have, I would get the Vandersteen center which "matches" your front speakers. This is not to say the Paradigm is no good, it's just that it probably works best with Paradigm fronts.
The rear speakers are less important to be matched but if I was starting from scratch, all five would be the same. The sub is not heard, only felt, so it can be any brand you like.
This, of course, is only my opinion although it is probably shared by a lot of people. For all I know, the Paradigm may match nicely with your Vandersteen or they may clash like the Bears and Packers. I don't think you can go wrong, however, with a Vandersteen center. |
| RE: My opinion... | emvan
Nov 30, 2001 3:47 PM | | Great answer. I hadn't given thought about the notion of matching the actual tweeter -- which makes perfect sense but complicates the issue nicely!
The Vandersteeen center will *not*, I believe, exactly match my L/R, because they're the old, original, 2C's -- two revisions ago -- and I'm pretty sure it's the tweeter that they've changed most. So now the question becomes whether the Vandersteen or the Paradigm will match better, which may be the same question as whether Vandersteen simply went to an improved version of the old tweeter or whether they opted for something very different. Which will take a little research into what drivers are involved across the board (and maybe a second round of Q&A here!). Fortunately I still have my Stereophile review of the 'Steens and I hope that has some driver info; if not, I can hopefully get the info from Vandersteen. |
| RE: My opinion... | Quagmire
Dec 1, 2001 2:08 PM | | Emvan,
I agree that Mike did give you a great answer, but if you are open to a slightly different point of view, I have one to offer. I am one of the AR site members who preaches timbre matching most vehemently, and that INCLUDES the rear speakers. I am a firm believer in the importance of this principle. Additionally, it is my OPINION that integrating Home Theatre systems with existing Stereo systems can be more problematic (and expensive) than most people are willing to accept. I usually urge those thinking of doing so to consider keeping seperate systems if at all possible. But this all depends on how much time, money, and energy have gone into the Stereo system to begin with and how pleased the individual is with the system. If you have the means to have seperate systems in your home and you have invested much of the afore mentioned "blood, sweat and tears" into your Stereo system, consider keeping it intact, unaltered. My reasoning for this is that it can be very difficult to optimize one system to do both formats equally well. If the quality of stereo reproduction is very important to you, you will likely muck up your existing system by trying to build a Home Theatre system around it. Conversely, you would probably have much better luck building a top notch surround sound system from scratch because then decisions such as timbre matching, speaker choices and placement can be made soley for Home Theatre performance, without regard to how they effect Stereo playback. Often times, this ends up being less expensive than trying to sucessfully retrofit an older Stereo system. If this is not something you are willing or able to do, that is perfectly understandable... but I always give my honest advice for what I believe works BEST, even if it's not the most popular advice.
Having said all of that... if keeping seperate systems is not for you and no matched center or surround speakers are available for your current speakers, then you will have to compromise and find the closest match that you can: However, this is probably not something you can assertain just from reading the data. IMO, you will need to audition various center channel speakers in your home, along side your Vandersteens. BTW, test discs such as AVIA and VE provide some tools which are helpful in determining how well speakers are matched in a surround system. I would highly recommend you use these, along with your senses, to find the right speaker match. Best of luck to you in your search.
Q |
| RE: My opinion... | emvan
Dec 1, 2001 3:53 PM | | More great advice. Ultimately I may split my systems but for the next few years, at least, I have to make do with one.
One factor is that I've just moved, so my old stereo is already in a new room. That certainly helps in terms of the listening psychology -- favorite CD's already sound different.
To my mind, I have two choices. If I give up on listening to 5 or 6 channel music, all I've done to my stereo is a) add a Hsu sub, which is a major win, and b) replaced my 25-year old Carver pre-amp and power-amp with a 100 w/ch Onkyo receiver. Since the Carver M-1.5t will now be driving the Hsu, I'm not sure this is a loss. It would be very, very different if I had replaced those ancient, allegedly mid-fi electronics with something sexy -- but I held off on doing that when I saw the HT thing coming. And I've always been a firm believer that what you hear is 99% the speakers and sources and 1% the electronics (if you couldn't figure that out already).
OTOH, if I decide I like one or more of the Onkyo's multi-channel music modes (their Pro Logic II has adjustable parameters), I should have a huge win.
Right now (after reading their lit) I'm hopeful that the Vandersteen CC will integrate well with my fronts. I will probably, however, compare the Paradigm to it, just out of curiosity.
The surrounds are another question, but I have 4 good candidates -- Boston Acoustics VR-MX, Def Tech BPX, Paradigm Studio/ADP, and Energy Veritas V2.0R (the Vandersteen "surrounds" are monopoles, and are larger and costlier than any of these. I'm sure they'd do the best job on multi-channel music, but I've never heard anyone say that monoples could compare to bi- or dipoles for HT. There's that dratted compromise!)
The Energies, though the most expensive, seem promising in that you can both choose bipolar vs. dipolar and adjust the level of the side drivers relative to the forward. I'll hopefully be able to find some dealers who'll let me test-drve them.
Which leads to another question -- when you're test-driving surround speakers, how much of a hassle is it to get them mounted on the walls? |
| Look at Studio 20's for surrounds. | HTHokie
Dec 2, 2001 8:26 AM | | If you are concerned about the dipole design of the ADP's look at the Studio 20's... I had the same dilema... I had a Paradigm Ref. system and was looking for surrounds... I went with the Studio 20's over the ADP's, saved some money, and finally experienced what others had explained about timbre matching! The store SHOULD allow you to test any speakers you consider... but, make sure you're serious about purchasing first!
Many suitable mounts are available and don't pass up the simple solutions - such as putting up some shelves for your surrounds. Obviously, I wouldn't screw anything into your speakers until you knew they would work! I've been using temporary supports to experiment with placement... I'm going to use a relatively cheap mount from Vogel's which does not require you to screw into your speaker...
Good luck! |
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