|   Speaker setup without sub - Large or Small? | mtzoanos
May 6, 2002 8:12 PM | | Hi,
I have purchased a Marantz SR5200 and I am using bookshelf speakers (B&W 601 S3). Since I plucked down quite a lot of money for the system, I don't think that I'll be able to afford a decent subwoofer for a while:-)
I have set the subwoofer to NONE. This forces me to keep the front speakers as large.
I am not sure how I should configure the rest of my speakers
1. Should I set the center speaker to large to maintain tonal balance with the front speakers?
2. Should I set the rears to large or small?
3. What are the pros and cons of each setting?
Thank you,
Michael Tzoanos |
| re: Speaker setup without sub - Large or Small? | lonecrazy
May 7, 2002 4:08 AM | | You didn't mention which center or rears you were using. However, if the center and rears are at least as large, and you have no sub pressently(get one quick!!!), you should likely use large settings for all the speakers! You should also go EASY on the volume for sure! NO STANDARD PASSIVE SPEAKER, full range or small, can handle full range DD/DTS bass from a good soundtrack!! That said, just go easy an low on the volume for now(ESPECIALLY if you use only a receiver!)
If your center and/or rears are smaller, then just go large to main LR spks.
May I strongly suggest, as a novice(???), that you spend A GREAT DEAL of time on learning how to set up speakers!!! This is absolutely paramount in importance to you getting good sound!! You should start with ONE speaker,then TWO, then the center (move around a bit for even sound, then the rears. If you can't learn to set up ONE speaker for good sound in a room, you'll fail at 5 or more!!!!!
99.9% of the people can't do this!...nor do they know it makes any difference!
The smaller the room, the more critical this is(also your seating possition!) as well. Your goal is to get a semblance of flat frequency response for each speaker, in relation to each other and the room/seating possition. It is of utmost importance you get good even output from 60hz to 100 hz, especially when your going to EVENTUALLY cross em over at 80hz(which you should when you get a sub). Still, you should get close to flat response (within 5 db...so get a sound level meter and test tone disc...worth it!). There are other ways to set up speakers, but takes some knowledge and experience.
MOST people end up with mediocre to poor sound at best because they don't know what they doing when it comes to setting up gear in any given room. Learn how and you can get the best results for ANY LEVEL of gear!!....otherwise, pay someone to do it for you.
good luck |
| re: Speaker setup without sub - Large or Small? | mtzoanos
May 7, 2002 6:00 AM | | Hi,
Having purchased the system over the weekend, I am certainly a novice when it comes to home theater.
The center channel is a B&W LCR60 S3 (matching center) and the rear speakers are identical to the front (B&W 601 S3).
I am confused by the volume control of my receiver. It starts at - 75db and ends +15db. I am currently setting the music and movies anywhere between -30db and -10db. Is that too loud? What does -10db stand for?
I am concerned that I may damage the speakers especially since I heard a lot of bass coming through them while watching Gladiator. To avoid damaging the speakers, should I set all speakers to small? I can do that if I switch on the subwoofer on the setup screen.
Is there another way that I can learn how to properly set up my system? In all honesty, there isn't much leeway as to where the speakers will end up within my current room especially given the magnetic considerations of the TV in the front and the computer in the rear. I recall reading about a post by someone who had purchased some sort of CD that helped them fine-tune their system.
Also, my rear speakers are closer to my sofa than my front speakers. The front speakers are 10ft away and the rear speakers are 4ft away. As a result, the sound from the rear speakers is drowning the sound from the front speakers. I noticed that there is some setup screen that allows me to input a negative or positive decibel value for each speaker. Should I put a negative value for the rear speakers there? It goes all the way down to -15db but I am not all that familiar with the decibel rating system.
Thanks,
Michael Tzoanos |
| Some of this is right and some totally wrong..... | Terrible Terrence
May 7, 2002 8:58 AM | | "However, if the center and rears are at least as large, and you have no sub pressently(get one quick!!!), you should likely use large settings for all the speakers! You should also go EASY on the volume for sure!"
(Hey everyone, there is a smile on T-mans face as he posts this. No Terrible comments!)
Lonecrazy, this is pretty bad advice and I am surprised that you with your stated credentials would make such a recommendation. Having all speakers on large without the aid of complex measuring tools and eq is an acoustical nightmare. Bass coming from the left/right mains is likely to sound(and measure) quite differently than bass coming from the rear and center. There can be as much as a 30db's difference in frequency response as the speakers interact with the rooms different modes and nodes at different places. Unless you use a spectrum analyzer and parametric eq, it is not recommended that you have bass coming from so many speakers and from so many directions.
Also there are very few surround and center speakers that can handle the LFE channel. When all speakers are set on large with no sub, the LFE channel is spread with unity gain amoung all channels. The center, and the surrounds are likely to exibit more distortion at even moderate levels when trying to reproduce the LFE signal than the L/R mains.
I have 20 years of audio and soundtrack mixing experience. If the center speaker(or any main speaker) cannot play flat to 40hz(35hz is ideal in room measured at the listening seat) at the maximum volume you listen to(with some headroom for safety)then it should not be set to large. There is no precedent(or support)for deep bass coming from the surround channels. They are band limited on the dubbing stage were all soundtracks are created, so there is no requirement they be full range. IMO the only speakers that should be set for large absent a sub is the L/R mains.
"NO STANDARD PASSIVE SPEAKER, full range or small, can handle full range DD/DTS bass from a good soundtrack!!"
Not true. I have no subs in my setup and my Left/Right mains handle the LFE signal just fine. They have a in room measurement of flat to 20hz, with a gentle roll off below that. The combination of the two speakers can playback a 20hz sine wave at 112db's in my room(with less than 10% distortion). There are very few subs that can do this. There may be few passive speakers that can do this, but not none.
Terrence |
| re: Speaker setup without sub - Large or Small? | Keith from Canada
May 7, 2002 6:59 AM | | Your Marantz manual should give you some insight into this issue. For my Denon, it recommends (strongly I might add) that you not set the center channel to 'large'. I've fiddled and didn't find that it made much of a difference (dialog is a touch 'muddier' on large but barely noticable) so you might be able to get away with it. I personally would not set rear speakers to 'large' regardless of their size. I don't see a need to run deep bass out of the rears...it sounds and feels more realistic coming from the front than from the side or behind IMO. |
| Thanks | mtzoanos
May 7, 2002 7:22 AM | | Thanks Keith,
The marantz manual is not that clear as to how to set up the speakers. Unfortunately, these manuals must be translated into so many different languages that they end up not being that thorough.
I will definitely leave the rear speakers as small since they're already stealing attention away from the front speakers.
It's also possible that I may end up switching to the Yamaha RX-V630 since the receiver with all the interconnects has gotten too deep for my shelves. To be honest, despite never having owned another receiver, I must say that I'm incredibly impressed with the Marantz SR5200. I watched Gladiator yesterday and I was simply blown away. Even without a subwoofer, I thought that the 601s were pumping out quite a lot of bass.
That's got me worried that I might damage the speakers. Well, I'll email B&W, see what they have to say.
Thanks,
Michael |
| Don't worry too much | Old_lane
May 7, 2002 7:51 AM | | about the speakers that is. I've seen some bookshelves put out a decent amount of bass. The klipsch reference series (forgot which ones I saw) I listened to at a tweeter store sounded very very good and i was blown away at the good amount of low freq that these were puttin out. I wouldn't worry about damaging the speakers unless you are driving them too hard and you should be able to hear when you are driving them too hard. If you stay within the spec range you should be fine and even if you exceed it a bit I think you'll be alright. So far in my experience I've never blown speakers, I try to excercise a little control over the volume knob and if my speakkers start to make that crackling noise i turn it down real quick. |
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