|   Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | Master_DTS
May 8, 2002 9:16 PM | | Hello!
Im looking for an entry level 5.1/DTS receiver. I want good sound, but dont need tons of features added on. Just as long as it has 5.1 and DTS compatibility. I dont know what brand to go with. Im thinking Sony, Technics or JVC. I have Sony and AR speakers with a Energy Sub. Im running it all off of 12gauge wire...but without a 5.1 receiver, its crap. So I figure the investment into one, is worth while. Any wattage will do...as it will be just used in a small bedroom in which I fit my home theatre in.
I have a ProLogic receiver now. And after hearing the 5.1 difference at my bros house, my goodness...I have to get it!!! 5.1 is so much clearer and defined. Its sweet!!!!! Right now, obviously Im only getting 3 channel ProLogic sound even though I have 5 speakers and a sub hooked up.
So what would you ppl recommend? Are the cheapest Sony or JVC ones alright? |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | DaveHK
May 8, 2002 10:32 PM | | I would stay away from the sony or jvc and spend a couple more dollars and get a denon or comparable unit. Usually you can get a good one for about 500 to 600 dollars. The 1802 series has 5.1 and I believe 80 watts a channel. search around on the internet for prices and then go into a local hi-fi shop armed with that knowledge. Auditon several brands and seta price limit. If it takes another month or two to save for a better unit, do it, you'll be happier for years to come. Don't rush into something you aren't happy with to get something right away. Wait and to it right, or don't do it at all. At all costs I would avoid Best Buy. Circut City is okay, but its harder to negogiate a price. Hope that helps
dave ?: |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | Master_DTS
May 8, 2002 11:07 PM | | Just wondering...why does everyone say to stay away from JVC or Sony? Do they just dont make good receivers? Cause I use their speakers and TVs and have no problem at all.
Also, I would love a Denon. But I figure in my case...is it really worth it. Since my speakers are "very good quality" at best...nothing high end though. |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | DaveHK
May 8, 2002 11:39 PM | | The entry level Sony's have a THD level (total harmonic distortion) of about 1%, as oppsoed to Denon's .05-.08%. Sony's low end stuff is designed with flashy lights to appeal to people that care more about looks than audio quality. True story, about 2-3 years ago, many Sony STR series recievers were starting on fire in best buy. If you weight the 200 hunderd dollar or so difference bewteen a sony and a Denon, its definitely worth it. Consider how long you will own the unit and do you really want to regret the purchase of a lower-end unit for a few years. Check out www.6ave.com, they hooked me up real good with a 2801. they have the 1802 for only $498. Consider that against 400 bucks for a sony, i say its worth it. hope it helps.
dave ?: |
| There is only one to consider in the $500 range | pinetop
May 9, 2002 1:20 AM | | And that would be the Outlaw 1050 no question. bob d |
| There is only one to consider in the $500 range | Keith from Canada
May 9, 2002 7:48 AM | | I've heard the Outlaw a few times and I would say that you have somewhat of a point Pinetop HOWEVER, I would not say that it's 'better' than the others in its class. I would say that it's a good competitor although it's not without its own flaws. |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | Woochifer
May 9, 2002 1:29 PM | | One word on Sony's specs. I think those rated distortion levels are higher because they want to quote a higher wattage rating not because there's something wrong with how the amp performs under normal conditions. There's a lot of monkeying around with specs and every manufacturer has some doctored set of specs that they can spring on unsuspecting customers, which makes it very difficult to do reasonable comparisons between receivers based on specs alone.
For example, Onkyo sometimes quotes their wattage ratings using a 6 ohm single frequency test, which is about 20 watts/channel higher than another rating that they did using a full frequency 8 ohm test; and with one of their entry level models, Yamaha quotes a output rating of 95 watts/channel with the distortion level approaching 10%, even though with the full frequency 8 ohm test the output rating drops to about 65 watts/channel with a distortion level of about .06%. It's all about maximizing the wattage that they can quote without outright lying. Stereo receivers have a standard for how the specs are supposed to be quoted, multichannel receivers don't, which is why you gotta be careful in how you read and interpret them. |
| Put simply... | Keith from Canada
May 9, 2002 6:30 AM | | The answer to the question: "Do they just dont make good receivers?" is simply "yes".
Again, it's not so much that they don't make good receivers (although i would argue that too), it's more the fact that companies like Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo and Marantz make far better receivers at the same price points. More specifically, both Yamaha and Onkyo offer very good quality products in the sub $500 range that would do much more for your system than a JVC or Sony ever would. Better build quality, better amping section...just plain better!
By the by...Sony and JVC measure their total wattage output differently than do Yammie, Onkyo, Denon and Marantz which makes looking at wattage specs completely useless. Most people see the "100 watts x 5" sticker plastered all over the Sony and JVC lines and automatically assume that they have a better amp section than the 70 and 80 watt Yamaha when in reality, the Yammie will blow them out of the water. |
| Absoloutly correct | pinetop
May 9, 2002 6:44 AM | | the way Sony Jvc measure there amp power is questionable to say the least. bob d |
| Everyone doesn't say that | Norm Strong
May 10, 2002 2:14 PM | | I don't say it. I have a soft spot for Kenwood and Technics, but that doesn't mean anything; I've just had good experiences with those 2. If you like Sony or JVC, go ahead and buy them. I doubt that you'll be sorry. |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | Soundman
May 9, 2002 4:56 AM | | Some other links to check:
http://www.cheaphometheater.com/receivers.htm
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=piovsxd811s
http://store.rexstores.com/kore/catalog/Audio/Receivers/CNQNEBMFFYY407VRZ0E6/product.html http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=yamhtr5560 |
| re: Looking for entry level receiver..please help!!! | Phillykid
May 9, 2002 8:11 AM | | Pretty much the amps in these things are weak. They are measured at a higher THD, with only 2 channels running, and are rated at peak wattage whereas Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha are rated as RMS or nominal which is the more important factor. I'd look at the Onkyo 595, Denon 1802, yamaha htr 5460, the outlaw that pinetop mentioned and marantz. |
| Denon it is... | Master_DTS
May 9, 2002 11:32 AM | | I guess I will get a Denon. Whats their cheapest model I can get? I like Onkyo too, but they are too pricey for me.
Ive never actually heard a Denon receiver in a demo playing, so I wouldnt know what difference it would make over a Sony, JVC, etc. But I would imagine huge!!!
Its just that my bro just picked up a Sony DVAC900 Dream system, HTIB...DVD and amp all in one. And wow, it sounds amazing! But maybe thats cuz its a high end Sony model. ? |
| Denon it is... | DaveHK
May 9, 2002 11:38 AM | | If you get a Denon or anything else, it will smoke that sony HITB. When you hear the Denon or comparable, you'll wonder what you were missing. Like I said, go to www.6ave.com they have the 1802 for $498. They are great people/ |
| well, i have a JVC........................ | Night Wolf
May 9, 2002 11:43 AM | | the RX-6010 and although its the lowest JVC model its OK (ok, not good or great) it gets the job done, if i had to do it over again, i would have went with a Onkyo or Yammie, but i didnt its DTS/DD (the RX-6020, the model that replaced mine has 5.1 channel analog input and Pro Logic2, which i wish mine had)
the JVC won't wow your friends, it isn't the best cranking reciever, but it will play loud, it says 100watts, ut its really like 80 (which is more then enough)
if you are tight on a budget then take a look at the JVC RX-6020, its $200 at circuit city, or $150 on ebay (brand new)if you can save another $150 go with a yammie or onkyo |
| well, i have a JVC........................ | Master_DTS
May 9, 2002 11:50 AM | | I just cant believe that my bro...spend $1600cdn cash on the Sony HTIB Dream system. Sure its their highest end model, but still. Hahaha...his HTIB is just looks, with excellent sound for movies, but ok for music.
But its his choice, he said he wanted to spend more $ into the video side of things, as he bought a Panasonic front projector. |
| I doubt that it's even pushing 80per channel | Phillykid
May 9, 2002 1:07 PM | | I'd guess that the lower end sonys and jvcs are pushing more like 40 perchannel. The onkyo 595 is 75wpc (and I doubt it really pushes that with all 5 channels going but it's much more realistic than sony's 100wpc.
BTW a good general rule of thumb is to lift the receiver. Good amps that provide good power are Heavy. The onkyo 595 weighs about 25lbs. And you really could throw your back out trying to lift the monster Denon 4802 these things are beasts. |
| I doubt that it's even pushing 80per channel | Night Wolf
May 9, 2002 6:09 PM | | i have a power meter (goes to 100watts) and my JVC starts to clip at around 80-85 watts, and my JVC weighs 21lbs, which isn't bad for a low end reviecer |
| I doubt that it's even pushing 80per channel | Phillykid
May 10, 2002 6:39 AM | | Are you measuring with all channels driven into an 8ohm load with .08THD....cause supposedly that's about what onkyo and denon use. (maybe slightly lower thd)? If it can do this then I'm very impressed. |
| Denon it is... | slingerofonions
May 9, 2002 6:02 PM | | Question (in the respect that "don't sell yourself short") .. how can you possible say Denon is it? - without doing the research between what each receiver offers for its respective price point. Simply put, test the models out, hear them out and then select which one sounds the best and has the most available features necessary before picking one because of recommendations or, gee, the name sounds cool!! Woo hooo! Really though .. Phillykid summed the options up really well for the budget range you are talking about ...
--snip--
Pretty much the amps in these things are weak. They are measured at a higher THD, with only 2 channels running, and are rated at peak wattage whereas Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha are rated as RMS or nominal which is the more important factor. I'd look at the Onkyo 595, Denon 1802, yamaha htr 5460, the outlaw that pinetop mentioned and marantz.--end snip--
Honestly, these are good choices to start with. and again, honestly, I would stay away from Sony, JVC, Technics, most Pioneer as well as a few others .... and give Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, HK, (Outlaw's ok, but better than Sony for price) a good listening to before deciding on any one inparticular. Hey, listen to other Sony's and if you like them so much and can save yourself hundreds of bills .. go for it. It's your system and noone elses. However, if you want a truly better sounding system in the long run when matched up with a good set of speakers, consider the others mentioned above .. do yourself this favor. It's worth more than you may know right now.
Regardless .. welcome to the world of HT and with whatever system you end up with, enjoy it!! Just don't kill off the research portion of the experience. It never ends, but it is well worth the end result. .....
slinger |
| Denon it is... | pinetop
May 9, 2002 6:48 PM | | Outlaw is still better than all of the ones mentioned,i will give some reasons to start
#1 better 2 channel sound than the rest mentioned
#2 better amp quality and build than the rest mentioned
#3 i can give a lot more reasons if you want
#4 able to drive 4 ohm speakers
#5 maybe the most important the low price and let me add
#6 i had the denon 2802+3802 and the outlaw is a better bargin and sounds better in 2 channel sound. Now go ahead and buy that 1802 it will be your loss. bob d |
| Denon it is... | DaveHK
May 9, 2002 7:16 PM | | I'll have to say, I have never heard an outlaw, the local shops around me don't carry them, where did you get yours?
p.s My denon has unbelievable two-channel, so I'd be very interested to hear the outlaw
dave ?: |
| Denon it is... | pinetop
May 9, 2002 7:55 PM | | You have to buy one through outlawaudio.com they only sell them this way. bob d |
| Denon it is... | DaveHK
May 9, 2002 7:56 PM | | I'd have a problem buying a reciever I have never heard, even if they get good reviews. How do they stay in buisness?
dave ?: |
| Denon it is... | pinetop
May 9, 2002 8:29 PM | | dave i would assume by word of mouth, and the good reviews they get all over the web. bob d |
| Personal opinion...not fact | Keith from Canada
May 10, 2002 4:50 AM | | "better 2 channel sound than the rest mentioned"
I have heard the Outlaw and I agree that it does very well in 2-channel however, I would choose a NAD or Rotel receiver over the Outlaw if 2 channel was that important to me. Also, I personally found that both Marantz and Denon were very comparable to the Outlaw in 2 channel sound. Of course, this is just my opinion, just like your post expressed your opinions.
"i had the denon 2802+3802 and the outlaw is a better bargin and sounds better in 2 channel sound. Now go ahead and buy that 1802 it will be your loss"
First off, the 3802 sounds much nicer in 2 channel (IMO) and the 2802 is certainly no worse than the Outlaw. I would also agrue that both of these units are much better in the HT department than the Outlaw.
Don't mean to start a war of words with ya Pinetop but I think it's important that you avoid claims that make your opinion sound like fact. Lines like "Outlaw is still better than all of the ones mentioned" give readers the impression that this is some sort of statistical proof. |
| Personal opinion...not fact | pinetop
May 10, 2002 5:32 AM | | Well it is my personal opinion, who better to judge the sound qualitys of the 3802 2802 and 1050 than a person who lived with all three for months? After all you said yourself you only heard it a few times,and as far as the 3802 sounding as you say nicer in 2 channel sound that is your opinion not mine.And i never said the 1050 was better at home theatre than the denon,but i will say it just as good.my opinion of cource. And as far as comparing nad rotel for 2 channel thats just what they are 2 channel units |
| And one more thing | pinetop
May 10, 2002 5:42 AM | | You said the denon is mutch better at home theatre than the 1050 is there as you would say proof of this or just your opinion. bob d |
| Personal opinion...not fact | pinetop
May 10, 2002 6:24 AM | | And you give me statistical proof that it isn"t better than the ones mentioned. bob d |
| Thought this might happen... | Keith from Canada
May 10, 2002 6:50 AM | | Like I said PT, I don't want to put up the dukes on this one but I will say that you've tried to turn around my main point with this last post. My point was, there is no statistical proof in either case...we're both talking personal opinion. As a result, neither one of us has anything to fall back on but our ears, wallets and opinions. I wouldn't have had a single problem if you had followed your original post with an IMO statement rather than making it sound as though your opinion was factual. The mere fact that you've had all three of those units will help you make a more convincing argument however, it still doesn't make your opinions fact.
By the way, I was refering to the NAD and Rotel 5 channel receivers, not their 2 channel offerings. |
| Thought this might happen... | pinetop
May 10, 2002 7:26 AM | | Ok it is my personal opinion just like yours, it would be hard to prove witch one is better than the other. And i have heard the nad t751 and i would say that 1050 is just as good imho is that better? (enjoy) bob d |
| A little Clarity | HockeNut
May 10, 2002 7:43 AM | | We can all go on forever of what sounds better to us, or which one we just like better given a choice. The helpful posts on this thread are those that tell people why one may be a better choice. Saying you think it sounds better, even in your humble opinion still doesn't help somone who has never heard it. Obviously we are all entitled to our opinions, but this particular post has gone on long enough. Your choice has been made clear to all.
Now if someone wants to continue to give the original poster advice on features and power that are different from one brand/model to the next, that would be welcomed by all. Those are the types of posts that have helped me the most on this thread, and I am sure the original poster would appreicate that as well.
Hocke Nut |
| A little Clarity | pinetop
May 10, 2002 8:09 AM | | This post is history, I think kfc and myself made our points and your reply is just adding more coals to the fire that is allready out so let there be an end. bob d |
| Agreed, Mission Accomplished Either Way | HockeNut
May 10, 2002 9:03 AM | | |
| A little Clarity | Keith from Canada
May 10, 2002 9:32 AM | | Cheers PT...like I said, I didn't want to start a war of words, especially with a poster that I usually agree with and find informative. |
| Cheers to you to keith now | pinetop
May 10, 2002 9:47 AM | | I am going to take a trip to the speaker forum and see what damage i can do over there,maybe look in on the amp department while i"m at it then call it a day. LOL bob d |
| Denon it is... | CaptCurt
May 26, 2002 1:17 PM | | Pinetop,
Sounds like you have experience in this matter, and like the Outlaw.What do you know about the Yamaha rx-v1200,
other than the reviews on this site which are great.Have you heard this one?. I know Bob D is asking in the $500.
price-range but some sites (Abes of Maine) $549 and others.
I had asked a similiar question (CaptCurt) posted May 25.
Sony to Yamaha Rx-v1200.My system with Klipsch Synergy"s
sounded awesome (Fifth Element)However I've always heard that Yamaha is awesome Music and Reviews on this site give it "5" Stars.The only problem I cant hear it anywhere, can you Help. CaptCurt |
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