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|   SIR TT, please allow me to respond to calibration .... | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 8:54 AM | | Of speakers. Again you try to make points backed by scientific theory and I for one have followed your posts and have admired your knowledge in the field of Audio. So when you publish a paper in the form of a post, I believe that you can back every single word that you write without a doubt.
But this is where logic comes in the picture and flies in the face of all the scientific arguments you made. We are still talking about NEWBIES here Sir TT and not qualified engineers such as you.
You Quoted:
"Nick, as you can see by the link I provided engineers DO know about the RS SPL meter's deficiencies. It has been discussed at every multichannel conference I have PAID to attend. Its not a well know fact to the newbie because the newbie wouldn't knowingly purchase a product that is difficent. Do you really think that radio shack is going to tell you that its meters are not perfect in its measuring ability? Most engineers don't use radio shack SPL meters anymore for just that reason."
You also Quoted:
"The very reason why I don't use consumer calibration equipment(Avia, VE and RS spl meter) on my hometheater is because I understand its purpose, who it is directed towards, its omissions, and weaknesses.
I choose to use a RTA instead of a SPL meter because I don't want to balance my mids and highs to room resonances like you would if you used a spl meter.
A SPL meter can tell you what is happen at one frequency in a single second. A RTA can tell you what is happening at a multitude of frequencies in a second. It paints a picture of what it measures, a SPL meter can not.
VE and Avia mentions nothing about addressing room resonances, the insentivity of our ears at low frequencies, or the shortcomings of the measuring instrument THEY recommend for use with their product. These omissions are what makes this product suitable for only getting you in the ballpark and not for hitting the home run. The point I am trying to tell A is that when you combine the SPL meters low bass mistrackings and the insentivity of our ears in the same region, it dictates that you boost the output of your subs in relation to your mains. Think of it this way, you mains carry all the frequencies that are most sensitive to your ears. The sub carries all the information that our ears are insensitive to. These two acoustical mismatches have to be compensated for in some manner. Thus you boost the insensitive relative to the sensitive. Thats logical."
Oh my God! How much more convoluted can it get for a newbie? Let's see. As a newbie I buy a HTIB or better yet, a receiver with 6 boxes and a DVD player. OK, now someone told me that I need to calibrate my system where I set the speakers to equal outputs so that speaker A is not louder than speaker B.
So I go to the nearest Radio Shack and buy a VE and SPL meter, why? cause that's what I've been reading on these boards. I follow the instructions on VE and adjust my speakers and LFE accordingly but wait a minute, I now have to dig through some sites and read lines after lines of boring stuff to just set my friggin Sub? WTF?
Why can't VE or Rat shack just tell me a number and that's what I will set it up to? And what the hell are room resonances and high frequency roll-offs?
So as bigwally asks, if the RS meter rolls off then should the LFE be set to 75dbs also to account for the roll-off? Aaarrrggh! Getting way to much complicated, can't go through one more site on LFE levels, please someone tell this newbie just in plain simple numbers will you?
If setting the LFE required to be set in a way where it's calibrated at +4dbs higher than the other speakers then why not say so in plain and simple english? I'll tell you why not Sir TT, it's only because the engineers themselves cannot reach a common consensus and that is why you need simplified tools such as a Rat-Shack meter and VE so that newbies can get some good out of their HTs without spending a fortune to have someone calibrate their |
| re: SIR TT, please allow me to respond to calibration-II | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 8:59 AM | | If setting the LFE required to be set in a way where it's calibrated at +4dbs higher than the other speakers then why not say so in plain and simple english? I'll tell you why not Sir TT, it's only because the engineers themselves cannot reach a common consensus and that is why you need simplified tools such as a Rat-Shack meter and VE so that newbies can get some good out of their HTs without spending a fortune to have someone calibrate their HTIBs or economical HT systems.
Sir TT, I don't think Newbies are trying to hit home runs, engineers like you maybe but definitely not newbies. They do want to get into the ball park though. So please as good engineer(s) tell them when you write instructions to set the LFE at a given number without making them spend a day or two reading convoluted information of which only audiophiles may make some sense of! |
| Hi Nick check out this website audioholics.com | pinetop
Jul 29, 2002 9:34 AM | | scroll down to the end of page on right side #8 tell me what you think. It says nothing about a 3 4 db gain what it does say is about 1db from one another. The only web site i have seen to set the sub + 3 4 is surroundassociates.com.To much conflicting advise would'nt you say. Did you ever see a receiver manual that says to set the sub + 3 4 db higher i don't think so,for that matter even a subwoofer manual.I know one thing,we oppened up a can of worms LOL. It's still flat across the board for me because it just plain sounds better. bob d |
| I don't want to get nailed here so i forgot to say | pinetop
Jul 29, 2002 9:49 AM | | it just plain sounds better for music,because of the fact i sometimes use the sub with my main speakers a + 4 would make it to boomy for me. bob d |
| Hi Nick check out this website audioholics.com | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 9:51 AM | | Agree with you. I feel that if I set my sub at +4db then at times it gets overwhelming for movies but not for music. Of course this is one endless experiment and I suggest experimenting is the best. I have adjusted so that my sub is 1 db more for HT and 2 dbs for music. |
| Hi Nick check out this website audioholics.com | pinetop
Jul 29, 2002 10:00 AM | | Sure i do about the same thing +2 tops. That's a good website audioholics.com. You also know we are going to get spanked for this don't you LOL. bob d |
| I am already hiding somewhere Sir T can't find me LOL (nt) | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 10:45 AM | | |
| Sir TT has Merlin, the audio magician. | kelsci
Jul 29, 2002 12:39 PM | | There ain't no place to hide from Sir TT.
Maybe the answer here is simple. You would adjust your sattelites to be sure that from your sitting position, that you have in your opinion the correct sound field. You would then adjust the sub to what you would feel should be its desired result playing against the satellites. What the sub should not do is to destroy the soundfields integrity of imaging and directionality that the satellites have created nor be pumped up enough to hear it location.
If you notice that listening to music seems less bass satisfying than your setting for a movie, perhaps raising the sub-out level on the receiver a few notches would take care of this matter again listening for the items I mentioned above. The good thing here is that you can return the sub-out level on your receiver back down to the "movie setting" that you found to work. This works for me. |
| The information is dated piney..... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 1:09 PM | | Piney,
There information is very dated. The state that Dts surrounds are 1-3db's louder than DD. That hasn't been the case since the laserdisc. That information cannot be relied on I am afraid.
Sir Terrence |
| Nick, come from behind that door!!!! I am not through with you.. | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 12:52 PM | | "Sir TT, I don't think Newbies are trying to hit home runs, engineers like you maybe but definitely not newbies. They do want to get into the ball park though. So please as good engineer(s) tell them when you write instructions to set the LFE at a given number without making them spend a day or two reading convoluted information of which only audiophiles may make some sense of!"
I personally think that everyone who owns anything from a HTIB to a mega thousand dollar system should be trying to hit a home run. I am about maximizing performance I don't care how much your system cost. Why should the guys that spend mega bucks be the only one to have access to ultimate tweak information? Shouldn't a newbie WANT to maximize the performance of the system they spent their hard earned money for?
Anyone can tell you to use VE or Avia to calibrate your system. I am here and have been here to share my knowledge that will get you the most out of your system AFTER you calibrate with these tools.
Don't newbies come here to learn more about audio and video? If you were to stop your learning at VE and Avia, then you would miss alot of stuff that REALLY matters. Like room acoustics, loudspeaker/room interactions, standing waves, and alot of other issues that profoundly effect system performance.
I think part of hometheater is not only watching movies, but learning how things tick. If all you wanted to do is watch movies and didn''t care about anything else, then there would be no need for them to come to site such as this. They would be too busy watching movies rather than talking about the equipment.
I couldn't imaging this site(or any other)being of much value if all they asked was "what is the best $200 receiver?" or " what is the best DVD player for $99?"
"So please as good engineer(s) tell them when you write instructions to set the LFE at a given number without making them spend a day or two reading convoluted information of which only audiophiles may make some sense of!"
Nick, I just led you to a site which did just that, and told you why also. What more can a man do??? lolol YOu can lead a horse to water, but he could still die of thirst if he doesn't bend his head down and drink. You agree?
Sir Terrence |
| As I gather myself from this terrible..... | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 1:11 PM | | Spanking. OK Sir T, I am sorry that I failed to see the big picture on the ultimate tweak. See but for me it is alright as I do want to have the ultimate tweak being an "Audiophile wannabe" that I am. But what about all those who are say a bit short on time and just want to get on with it?(heheheh,LOLOLOLOL) |
| Ohhhh a hit and run..... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 3:20 PM | | But what about all those who are say a bit short on time and just want to get on with it?
You know those hit it and kick it booty calls are never satisfying. LOLOLOL
Sir Terrence(so undignified in this post) |
| My response to this post first, and comment about LFE... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 12:18 PM | | Nick,
I know this is a tough issue to grasp and is full of alot of technical nuance. First, I want to address the issue of LFE. The consumer doesn't have the ability to adjust the LFE level, only the sub level. So lets leave out LFE for now because its level is preset and depends on how the subwoofer itself is adjusted.
If you think my explaination was technically challenging imagine if VE and Avia were to include it on their disc. It would then make these consumer calibration tools too difficult for the very market it was intended for.
"If setting the LFE required to be set in a way where it's calibrated at +4dbs higher than the other speakers then why not say so in plain and simple english? I'll tell you why not Sir TT, it's only because the engineers themselves cannot reach a common consensus and that is why you need simplified tools such as a Rat-Shack meter and VE so that newbies can get some good out of their HTs without spending a fortune to have someone calibrate their"
Nick, I disagree with this concept entirely. Engineers HAVE agreed and as you can see by the link I provided it is practice by engineers pretty widely. Before that, SMPTE had it in its standards for aligning dubbing stages, workstations, and multichannel audio mixing suites. So the practice of aligning the subwoofer +4 decibals louder than the mains is pretty old to the professional audio community but new to the consumer.
As far as the rat shack level meter and its operating difficencies, it has been discussed on this board and recalibration charts have been exchanged. I got mine from Doc Greene over a year ago. So this is well known information. I have seen correction charts here, at HTF, and a couple more DVD sites.
I believe the reason that all of this confusion exists is because many people in the professional audio field don't talk to each other. Also you have to keep in mind(I cannot stress this more) who VE and Avia are marketed to. Its not to the person who is well versed in room acoustics, have professional calibration tools, and can afford professional calibration. Its for the people who don't know about these things and cannot afford professional calibration.
Keeping all aspects of consumers calibration products SIMPLE and EASY TO UNDERSTAND is the upmost goal.
The audio on VE and Avia is not the only thing that has omissions. The video part also doesn't cover things that require you going into the service menu and calibrate. Things like color temp, convergence, eliminated stray light reflections in RPTV are just a few area they don't cover.
This is the price you have to pay when you do it yourself. These tools will certainly make your sound system sound better and your video to look better. But they are not the ultimate tweak designed to maximize system performance. You need considerable more tools and audio/video knowledge to that.
Sir Terrence |
| Thank you for the response Sir T.... | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 1:06 PM | | But again, we put the cart in front of the horse.
"I believe the reason that all of this confusion exists is because many people in the professional audio field don't talk to each other."
In that case how do they agree with each other?
"These tools will certainly make your sound system sound better and your video to look better."
That's it right there Sir T, that's all we are looking for. Anything more than that gets in the area of research and more agonizing research and for some of us it is OK but for the most of us it is not.
"But they are not the ultimate tweak designed to maximize system performance. You need considerable more tools and audio/video knowledge to that."
Like I said before, an ultimate tweak is not what an average J6P is looking for. Just some guidance within a set of parameters will be just fine. Something that says so fluidly and simply that "Please set all speakers to 75DBs and the sub to 79dbs, thank you very much and sit back relax and enjoy the movie without burning the pop-corn.
"The consumer doesn't have the ability to adjust the LFE level, only the sub level. So lets leave out LFE for now because its level is preset and depends on how the subwoofer itself is adjusted."
Again, what is a poor newbie supposed to do when he is asked to adjust the LFE level? Although some manuals do say or refer to it as the subwoofer level. As a non-engineer, if someone asks me what is your LFE set at OR f someone asked me what is your SW set at? In both cases the answer would be the same. In the world of newbies and novices where manuals are so unclear and convoluted, confusion takes hold.
I do not mean to argue with you about HT in specifics because you will simply overpower me with your vast knowledge in the field. I was simply trying to make a point when I originally agreed with 'A' that whether you are Avia, VE or Rat-Shack, keep it simple and tell us what to do. Of course reading your posts in some way empower us to experiment by setting the SW up by 4 dbs and enjoying HT to a whole nother level. But not everyone participates here and reads helpful info, they are only left to what Avia and VE tell them. Point being made is if they felt that the SW needs to be setup +4dbs then they should have said it, or, did they simply overllok it? |
| +4 db is still to boomy for my taste and i don't care | pinetop
Jul 29, 2002 1:43 PM | | what anyone or any website says. I can hear the diff between a +4 and flat and i like the flat setting for music.Now you know when you have the perfect tweak when it sounds good to you and you tried all the other sub settings from + 1 to + 10,and come back to the one that sounds the best to you. In my case that would be flat. And no meter or real time analyzer is going to tell me that. bob d |
| alright piney simmer down, there no sub police.... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 3:38 PM | | Piney,
You can set you sub to any setting you desire, there is not police watching your levels. If you don't like you sub calibrated +4 decibals in relationship to your mains, don't do it.
By the way, my recommendation DO NOT apply to music, only hometheater Okaaaaaay!(snap!)
Sir Terrence |
| Ok sir T now your talking ,now i can relax | pinetop
Jul 29, 2002 4:22 PM | | I am getting to old for this stuff. I don't need any more confusion in my life. bob d |
| Nick, you can argue with me if you want, its all good brudda!! | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 3:16 PM | | "I do not mean to argue with you about HT in specifics because you will simply overpower me with your vast knowledge in the field"
We would never do such a thing, it would be both unseemly and undignified to do so. Besides, I WANT you to sit through my boring lectures(did I say that!)
"I was simply trying to make a point when I originally agreed with 'A' that whether you are Avia, VE or Rat-Shack, keep it simple and tell us what to do."
Impossible. That would mean that Radio shack, Ovation, and the producers of VE would have to talk to each other. There just isn't that kind of synergy in the industry. Also, radio shack would have to admit that their SPL meter is not very accurate at some frequencies which would lead one to say that is it too cheap to get the job done. That would be disaster to their business or, give them the drive to manufacturer a low cost high quality SPL meter. Thats very difficult and would require R&D resources.
"Of course reading your posts in some way empower us to experiment by setting the SW up by 4 dbs and enjoying HT to a whole nother level"
Three of Sir T's favorite words, "Empower" and "next level". Thats what I am all about. Empowering people to take audio to the next level(how about that for a mission statement!)
"Point being made is if they felt that the SW needs to be setup +4dbs then they should have said it, or, did they simply overllok it?"
IMO I think that sub levels are much like volume levels. Every has a different threshold. Some like high bass levels, some like balance. When it comes to levels there is no right and wrong way. Especially since there is no subwoofer police to monitor your levels.
Sir Terrence |
| It's all good me dear brudda! (LOL) :) (nt) | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 5:15 PM | | |
| Look here, nudes nudes nudes! | bigwally
Jul 30, 2002 4:17 AM | | Terrence, I was in a bit late on the previous thread so this question never got answered. Can you take a stab at it?
----------------------------------------------
I must have missed something, I can't seem to get my head wrapped around this.
--Let's say I want to take your advice and set my sub/LFE 4 dB higher than my satellite speakers.
--Let's also assume my RS meter rolls off the LFE test tone 4 dB in relation to the test tones sent to my mains ie. a 75 dB reading on the LFE is actually 79 dB while the reading for the mains is accurate.
By setting all of my speakers including the subs to a 75 dB reading on the RS meter, didn't I just automatically add 4 dB to the sub/LFE? |
| Everything you need to know about the Radio Shack sound meter | Richard Greene
Jul 30, 2002 10:15 AM | | (So where are the nudes nudes nudes?
I've been searching for 45 minutes!
My Radio Shack sound meter is rated at +/-2dB
when used to check SPL using "A"-Weighting.
"A"-Weighting is used to check for potential hearing damage.
A long time ago I compared my own Radio Shack meter
with a very expensive sound meter using pink noise
and the A weighting scale. Based on my SPL preferences,
I'll guess that I measured 80dB pink noise (I'm confident the test tone was in the range of 75 to 85dB, as I rarely listen to music outside that range.)
Result: My meter was 1dB lower than the expensive meter -- well within the +/-2dB rating.
I can only assume my Radio Shack meter is also +/-2dB
using pink noise and "C"-Weighting, although I did not test
it using "C"-weighting.
The Radio Shack meter correction factors published on the internet are for one specific Radio Shack meter.
Not for yours.
Not for mine.
In fact, the treble corrections make no sense at all for my own meter -- they are completely different than the frequency response curve printed in my owner's manual (a sharp treble roll off above roughly 10kHz.). That's why I never use the internet correction factors -- if they are way off for the treble, why should I trust the bass corrections?
In addition, few people realize the Radio Shack meter
internet "corrections" are more than error corrections.
If they were just error corrections, they would be huge error corrections -- so huge that I could never recommend the Radio
Shack meter to anyone.
In fact, the bulk of the internet "corrections" are the standard conversions from C-weighting (weighted to compensate for the difficulty the average person has hearing very low and very high frequencies) to U-weighting (unweighted actual SPL).
..................................Standard................
............Internet..........Conversion................
...........Correction........from C to U............Actual
.............Factors..........Weighting.............RS Error
10Hz.......+20.5dB........+14.3dB..........(-6.2dB)
12.5Hz.....+16.5...........+11.2............(-5.3)
16Hz.......+11.5............+8.5..............(-3.0)
20Hz........+7.5............+6.2...............(-1.3)
25Hz........+5.0............+4.4...............(-0.6)
31.5Hz......+3.0............+3.0...................0
40Hz........+2.5............+2.0...............(-0.5)
50Hz........+1.5............+1.3...............(-0.2)
63Hz........+1.5............+0.8...............(-0.2)
80Hz........+1.5............+0.5...............(-1.0)
100Hz.......+2.0............+0.3...............(-1.7)
The actual "error corrections" are relatively small between
20Hz. and 2,000Hz.
- Below 20Hz. Radio Shack meters tend to read too low.
- There is a peak of +2 to +4dB between roughly 4-8kHz.
- There is a very sharp roll-off above 10kHz.
The good news is the Radio Shack meter is reasonably accurate in the 20Hz. to 2,000Hz. range where accuracy is needed.
- Below 20Hz. SPL measurement is greatly complicated by the fact that when playing a 20Hz. test tone, you could be measuring harmonic distortion at 40Hz. and rattling walls that are louder than the actual 20Hz. test tone -- the meter measures all sound -- it doesn't discriminate between 20Hz., 40Hz. ,rattling walls, rattling floors ,and the wife bellowing "TURN IT DDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNN".
As you measure lower in frequency the harmonic distortion and rattling walls tend to be a larger percentage of the total SPL you measure.
Above 2000Hz. SPL measurement is complicated by significant hearing differences (due to different degrees of high |
| Everything you need to know about the RS sound meter (part 3) | Richard Greene
Jul 30, 2002 10:16 AM | | There is no Part 2.
Above 2000Hz. SPL measurement is complicated by significant hearing differences (due to different degrees of high frequency hearing loss). But even if everyone had perfect hearing, high frequency SPL preferences differ greatly -- what sounds detailed to one person may sound bright to another. Flat high frequency response usually sounds bright to a person with normal hearing -- but the degree of treble roll off that sounds natural (the "house curve") will differ considerably from person to person.
In summary, if you have a treble control or equalizer,
you should set the treble SPL by ear so it sounds natural to your ears. A sound meter won't help much for frequencies above 2,000Hz. so the fact that the Radio Shack meter is not very accurate above 2,000Hz. is not a very important fault. |
| Everything you need to know about the Radio Shack sound meter | mtrycrafts
Jul 30, 2002 8:31 PM | | Actuall, those internet correction numbers are the same as measured at one of the audio clubs using the expensive Audio Control unit, 3050 I believe, with hardly any roll off above 10khz. |
| No Bigwally you didn't......... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 30, 2002 11:04 AM | | "Let's also assume my RS meter rolls off the LFE test tone 4 dB in relation to the test tones sent to my mains ie. a 75 dB reading on the LFE is actually 79 dB while the reading for the mains is accurate."
Nope that is not how it goes. Remember its a roll off, not a gain. The sub has to be reading 79dbs to equal the mains 75dbs. If you set both your mains and and sub to 75dbs, your sub will have LESS impact than your mains because of the roll off characteristics of both the SPL meter and your hearing. In order for both to have equal impact, your sub must have a SPL meter reading of 79dbs in relationship to your mains 75dbs
Remember you experience losses in the low bass, not gains.
Lets keep it REAL simple(for film soundtracks only, not music). Set your sub so it reads 79dbs. Set you mains so they read 75dbs. You are through, amen and bye bye!
Sir Terrence |
| My response to this post first, and comment about LFE... | kfalls
Jul 30, 2002 5:27 AM | | Where can I get a copy of the RS operating deficiencies. I've used the RS meter for years and sensed something was wrong, but felt it was just my personal prefferences. I would run frequency response tests using Stereophile's and other test CDs. The parameters would look good, but I hated the sound requiring fine tuning by ear. I worked for CBS's tape facility in Terre Haute, IN for years calibrating QC and A/B testing rooms and developed a pretty good ear, so I'm familiar with the process and understand it, but it seemed the calibrations didn't adequately carry-over into my Home Theater settings. Now I'm curious to see what re-calibration, allowing for the RS deficiencies will do. Good thread, enjoyed the reading. |
| Agree Nick, Sire TT does go overboard sometimes :) | KiD SmokE
Jul 29, 2002 2:06 PM | | The Equalizer issue is a good example. Some one (newbie) might ask as how to slightly improve their system's sonic quality (may be slight bass or high boost) and Sire TT (<img src="http://www.regalweb.co.uk/loony/animated/bowingboy1.gif">)goes into over drive by saying he/she need to put panels around the room, raise the ceiling, buy a 30 band 1/3 octave EQ, treat room acoustics, modify loudspeaker/room interactions, minimize standing waves, recognize node points, buy new speakers and on and on.
The newbie will get so overwhelmed that he/she just might give up on idea of HT and just go back to the Walkman and shelf system..LOLOLOL
Meanwhile, all newbie might needed was a decent equalizer and slight boost in bass and treble and as Nick said, he/she will be in the ballpark without spending any time or fortune :) |
| What is this, bust Sir T chops week???? | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 29, 2002 3:31 PM | | Smoke,
Gimme a break, all I want to do is help? If all I did was talk about $200 receivers and $99 DVD players I wouldn't be me!
Geez, there has got to be some technical information discussed here. Don't we have to get past newbie eventually and get to the meat of this hobby?
All I want is to be loved and appreciated.
Now somebody, show the brudda some love will ya!
Sir Terrence(your bow was greatly appreciated) |
| Heheh....blame it on Nick. | KiD SmokE
Jul 29, 2002 4:33 PM | | He is the one who started all this "roasting" business. Doc Greene will probably be next....LOLOL
. |
| What is this, bust Sir T chops week???? | Woochifer
Jul 29, 2002 4:34 PM | | Hmmm, my calendar says it's the final week of July, but of course in the absence of a DBT, I could just merely be completely delusional in my beliefs since I actually have the audacity to write on the subject of time without submitting any evidence that time exists. But, I guess that with the appropriate figures of speech, my calendar could very well say "Bust Sir T's Chops Week", but since nobody on this board has submitted any evidence that language transcends literations through analogies and figurative speech, I won't freely fall to that folly either!
What does all that mean? I dunno! But, at least as you read this you got 'da love and appreciation from this brudda -- especially since LFE and bass are well outside my rhelm of expertise! (Considering the abuse you've been getting this week, think of it as tough love. Sort of like frat hazing without the gallons of booze!) Now, if you want to play naysayer on me and say prove it, maybe I need to prove that I exist first.
Hmmm ... what's Wooch been sniffin'???? Too buzzed on life to bow to Sir T's regality; oh what the hell, here! (_|_) Oh damn, equilibrium fails me again -- so I tried! |
| No Actually it is showing the brudda some..... | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 5:13 PM | | love week, at least it is that way from the nikster and always will be. There aren't too many times I get to argue with Sir T so I have to use whatever chance I get.
Well actually I never was arguing with you or your points but with the way a newbie can be confused.
Peace and love to you as always my brudda!
Now when are you going to answer Bigwally's question? (LOLOLOLOL) |
| Sometimes, Sir T-man ... | woodman
Jul 29, 2002 5:30 PM | | trying to help people on these forum boards can be a thankless uphill climb! I speak with considerable experience in trying to do just that.
With all due respect to your obvious technical background and know-how, I think that even mentioning such a device as an RTA is really not helpful for obvious cost reasons. I haven't been in the market for one lately myself, but if my memory isn't completely failing me, I believe that those things started at around 3 or 4 grand - don't they? This puts them in a totally different class than a $40 SPL meter, wouldn't you agree?
woodman |
| Don't know about Sir T but I agree Woody :) (nt) | nick4433
Jul 29, 2002 7:03 PM | | |
| Pinetop is going to hop the next jet to S-F CALIF | pinetop
Jul 30, 2002 2:22 AM | | and when SIR T is at work,Pinetop is going to sneak into Ts house and recalibrate his system.It's for his own good i am sure he will thank me for it. bob d |
| Not exactly Woodman..... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 30, 2002 10:10 AM | | Woodman,
RTA's no longer cost anywhere near 3-4grand. Now there are software versions for laptops that can be had(with high grade sound card) for about $300-$500. That still is out of the ballpark compared to a $40 SPL. These software versions can do so much more than the old stand alone RTA's so you get more technology for less price.
You can check speaker and driver phase, speaker alignment, 1/3,1/6,1/10 octave resolution, step response, waterfall plots and tons more things at well under 1 grand. For those who take their hometheater serious this is a indespendsible tool.
Sir Terrence |
| But can it make popcorn ??? | Richard Greene
Jul 30, 2002 10:41 AM | | Sir T-the-T-of-T (Terrence the Terrible of Torrance) sez:
"...this is a indespendsible tool."
(that's "indispensable, not "indespendsible"
-- whair was you edumacated, Nu Yawk City???)
.
.
.
RG replies (busting Sir T-the-T-of-T's chops,
as everyone else seems to do these days):
If it can't make popcorn,
then it's a "piece of crap",
not an "indispensable tool".
Hey TT: Are you any relation to
singer-songwriter Garland Jeffreys,
born in Brooklyn NY and of mixed black,
white and Puerto Rican heritage? |
| Do you want buttered or non buttered?? | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 30, 2002 11:18 AM | | (that's "indispensable, not "indespendsible"
-- whair was you edumacated, Nu Yawk City???)
I was typing very fast damn it!!! I can't see all of my airors! I got my edge-u-cation at the University of Spoiled Children aka USC.
If it can't make popcorn,
then it's a "piece of crap",
not an "indispensable tool".
Lets not get testy, TESTY!
Hey TT: Are you any relation to
singer-songwriter Garland Jeffreys,
born in Brooklyn NY and of mixed black,
white and Puerto Rican heritage?
As a matter of fact he is my uncle(mother's brother). Do you know him? Haven't seen him in years though.
Brooklyn NY and of mixed black,
white and Puerto Rican heritage?
Wow, this combination makes the most interesting people. Don't you agree?
Sir Terrence |
| NOTICE: .........EVERYBODY STOP BUSTING SIR T's CHOPS | Richard Greene
Jul 30, 2002 10:45 AM | | ... or else I'll clear my throat
That should stop those hooligans. |
| Well, I for one.... | _Luke_
Jul 30, 2002 10:45 AM | | appreciate the technical responses. Each of you has more experience than me, I'm sure. But something TT mentioned earlier was having an understading. I may not use all of the information I see here immediately, but it helps me to have an overall understanding of my system. I can then consider how minor tweaks will affect the overall sound rather than just that one I'm trying to change. If you're interested enough to make one tweak, I think you're interested enough to keep building ad building. For me the analogy really isn't hitting a homerun. It's more like running a marathin, with each tweak getting me one step closer to that finish line.
Hope that's enough love for ya because it's about all I can muster. Accept my e-smack in the arm. |
| We all done now? Good let's talk about big breasts. n-t | pinetop
Jul 30, 2002 12:35 PM | | |
| No problemo......... | KiD SmokE
Jul 30, 2002 2:07 PM | | Don't hurt yourself :)
. |
| Your picture is degrading to women -- shame on you for ... | Richard Greene
Jul 30, 2002 3:18 PM | | shame on you for posting just one picture!
http://www.affaritaliani.it/templates/zoom.asp?idNews=46935&idImg=11342
http://dalou.chez.tiscali.fr/tb032.jpg |
| Wahahhah....at least I post the picture.... | KiD SmokE
Jul 30, 2002 3:43 PM | | ......rather than just a lousy link :)
And as not to be shame myself for just posting one picture, here is another one -bigger one <img src="http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif">
. |
| Shoot smoke... | Sir Terrence the Terrible 1
Jul 30, 2002 4:03 PM | | If you had them things in your HT, there would be no room for electronic equipment. Just her's! heheheheheheheh...hey stop tryin to smother me wit those bomb woman!!!......
Sir (undignified) Terrence |
| My God they look like 26lb butterball turkeys | pinetop
Jul 30, 2002 4:52 PM | | maybe even whole hams or very large pot roasts. bob d |
| And you think of FOOD? (LOL) (nt) | nick4433
Jul 30, 2002 6:26 PM | | |
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