|   Should Pyro-Techs and Fireworks be allowed at all? And Who.. | HYFI
Mar 1, 2003 11:14 AM | | Should Pyro-Techs and Fireworks be allowed at indoor shows at all? And who is responsible?
Have we as the "Show going Public", come to the point where things have to be blown up and set ablaze in order to hold our attention? Is the show not good enough without it? We seem to have become a society where there is about a 5 minute attention span and if nothing bazaar happens we get bored.
In retrospect of last week's horrific tragedy, I feel we should stop allowing fireworks and explosions to be used during indoor events. I'm not real fond of outdoor ones either. Even if someone deems it safe because, "We did this 1000 times and it was fine", we have seen too many times what a panic stricken crowd will do to each other. Can you imagine a Smackdown event where there are 40K crazed chair swinging maniacs in the crowd and the Pyros for one of the wrestlers goes wrong. Even if there is no huge danger, the crowds reaction would be "Get the hell out of here". There is probably more danger in the crowd panicking then a fire in a concrete arena. It just seems senseless to subject our selves to these dangers without the proper precautions being taken and every person involved with the event being responsible for his or her own actions.
That brings me to the second half of this rant.
Now there is all this investigation into who's fault it was. It is mainly the bands fault for using flammable props and not having the right safety precautions in place no matter how many times they did it in the past. There should have been fire extinguishers on stage, as well as people trained in the proper use of them or not at all. But it is also the owners, operators, and employees of the venue's fault for allowing it to happen if they saw it being prepared and knew it was not allowed. Umm, low ceilings, no sprinkler systems and fireworks don't seem like a logical combination for anyone no matter how small their town is.
I feel horrible over the tragic and needless loss of life.
I hope people will start to take responsibility for what they do at all times. If this were to happen, stupid mistakes would not be the common theme on the 6 O'clock news. What we do in society should always be for the whole of society and not just for the self and bank account. Whether it is war or deadly fires, it all comes from selfish people who care only for themselves. If the owners cared about the "Chance" of a fire in a crowded public place, there would have been a sprinkler system in place even if it is not the law. I guess we are all somewhat responsible, since on a whole, our need for "Destruction equals Entertainment" has brought us to expecting to see these explosions and fireworks or some form of "Blow everything up in sight" movies. It's time for everyone to re-evaluate thier thinking and what path they can take to help with promoting "Love & Peace" instead of "Hate & War". Every negative and destructive movie and video game just tells all the kids that this behavior is just fine and accepted as well as, what would seem expected.
So what are some of your thoughts? |
| Hmmm...and you complained that MY question was hard?! | ForeverAutumn
Mar 1, 2003 2:10 PM | | Placing blame on whoever is responsible really isn't relevant. It won't bring back the dead. It's unlikely that the band or the club owners have enough money to replace the financial loss that some of these families may now suffer because of the death of an income earner. It may help the healing process to know that someone is held responsible and accountable, but that's about it.
What
i is
relevant is determining how to ensure that this
b never NEVER
happens again.
Outlaw all indoor fireworks. It's just too dangerous and is not necessary for the enjoyment of any event whether it be musical, sporting or whatever.
I don't agree with your analogy about war or deadly fires coming from selfish people who care only for themselves. I don't think that you can equate this event with a war.
i "what we do in society should always be for the whole of society"
You don't think that protecting your right to freedom and your safety is for the whole of society?
But that's a whole different topic altogether. ;-) |
| Let me say this about that....... | HYFI
Mar 3, 2003 1:35 PM | | My point was not to look for individuals to place blame upon. It was to point out that we as a society are wholely to blame because we allow these things to happen even when we know it's stupid.
Maybe I lost my meaning while ranting and mabe "Greedy People" would have fit better than Selfish. We recently had an incident where a tire junkyard, underneath a major highway-I95, went up and burnt the highway. It could have been avoided had the owners cared for more than themselves.
As far as war, Yes Huesain is selfish and greedy as well as Bush. Hmmm maybe if he was not so heavily invested in oil.
This is a bit off topic now so we can pick it up offline sometime.
My main point was that we all are responsible because we accept horror and atrocities as the norm. and we as a society allow this shit to keep happening as well as teach our children that violence is ok. |
| Yes they should be allowed, and they're used a helluva lot more | Swish
Mar 1, 2003 2:40 PM | | than most people realize. I just read an article in the public forum of our local paper that was sent in by a guy who has been a "live" sound tech for over 20 years. He mentions that pyrotechnics are used all over the world every day, and safely, including at many shows where he's worked. He's never seen any accidental fires, let alone the catastrophe that happened in RI.
Look, many products have the potential to create serious problems if used irresponsibly, including guns, alcohol, cars, fireworks, and obviously, pyrotechnics. Actually, I could care less if I ever saw them at a show. I prefer to see bands that entertain me with their music, not theatrics, and I think that bands that use them (ala Kiss) need them to create the aura of something special since their music ain't all that great (go ahead, take your shots at me, but I always thought they were barely marginal in the music world). How do you make sure nothing like that RI fire ever happens again? I have no idea, but banning something that's been used safely many thousands of times is not the answer. |
| L, yes! | DustyChalk
Mar 3, 2003 2:13 PM | | > Have we as the "Show going Public", come to the point where things have to be blown up and set ablaze in order to hold our attention?
Specifically, yes. Sometimes I want a show. I'm a pyromaniac, and since I'm not a practising pyromaniac, I want to get my kicks when I go to the appropriate kind of show (magic, hair metal, etc.). You ever been to Cirque du Soleil? I mean, c'mon! That's thrilling!
I'm sorry, but one tragedy should not set back my ability to pursue my happiness. I agree that it's a terrible tragedy, no argument there. It could have been (and should be required to be) handled better, I agree. There should be repurcussions when they are not handled well (and they weren't handled well, so there should be repercussions). So yes, blame is important. But let's not assume it's any one person's fault, and let the proper investigative authorities figure that out. Let's not "try them in public" -- that's lynch-mob mentality, and I for one will not be party to it.
For example -- what about that thread where the club owners used a highly combustible (likened to a gasoline fire) and extremely toxic ("...the smoke would have killed them before the fire even got to them...") <I>packing</I> (that's right, packing, not soundproofing) insulation as a cheap-ass way to try to combat neighborhood complaints of noise? I mean, there are lots of other ways to start fires than pyrotechnics, and if any of these had happened at the same club, with the same number in attendance, most likely the results would have been similarly catastrophic.
As far as I am concerned, <I>some</I> blame should be put on the club-owners.
A lot of the clubs I go to are shitty music venus -- all concrete and metal. You can have all the pyrotechnics you want there, nothing will burn (unless you <I>really</I> try). That has a lot to do with why this hasn't happened before, at least of such a tragic magnitude.
Hey, if you're scared, don't go! Boycotting -- hitting them in their pocketbooks, where it counts -- is probably the single most effective way of getting them to do something.
I don't go too often for a variety of reasons -- bad sound, smoke, etc. -- as far as I am concerned, that's a similar kind of boycott. I'm striking a blow for better sound, smoke-free venues, and...well, just plain less testosterone.
Which I am exuding right now. Grrr...arrrgh... Excuse me, I'm going to go find some green tea (although what I really want is something with Tequila in it). |
| Your gonna love my plan to help Word Hunger..... | HYFI
Mar 4, 2003 4:12 AM | | For 1 year I suggest that all the money spent on fireworks celebrations around the world, be donated to a plan to feed all the starving people. Instead of all the kids looking up and saying "OOO' & "AHHH", they can be proud about how they helped save millions of lives.
Is that really too much to ask?
OOO love Republic of Tea products, where do you get your Green Tea? |
| Retch! | DustyChalk
Mar 4, 2003 7:10 AM | | Bleah, your plan sucks. Yes, it's too much to ask. Of the public celebrations, most are locally funded. I'd rather that money, if it's not allowed to be spent on fireworks, be spent on salaries of teachers, cops, firemen, emergency rescue, etc. or schooling.
Everyone has their own pet project that they would love to funnel money into. I say screw you all. I don't have that much money, and the entire tax spending system needs a severe overhaul.
If you insist on taking the money and spending it globally, I'd prefer free surgeries for people who want to have their tubes tied (or whatever, to help curb the population explosion). 99% of the problems in today's day and age (including global starvation) are a result of overpopulation, so I say let's do something about it.
Of the private celebrations (Disney, hair bands, etc.) -- how about just letting the artists keep their own money? |
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