|   Help me buy a new receiver | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 2:08 PM | | I never think about stuff like this.
My receiver in the living room is an ancient (circa 1978) Yamaha CR-450. I bought it used for $75 10 years ago. It has served me well, but the left channel is crapping out on me. I need to replace it.
I'm a decidedly mid-fi sorta guy and I'm looking to replace it for $300 to $500 with some sorta consumer level unit. I just went to 3 consumer stereo stores (best Buy, Circuit City, GoodGuys) and poked around a bit, but the 20 year olds that work there all seemed to have just finished their bomber breaks and were of no help whatsoever.
What I want seems to be hard to find these days: I need a 2 channel (not surround) 100+W per channel (Need at least that to run my Klipsch KLF20s) rcvr with TT and mulitple component inputs.
All the mfgrs seem to be pushing surround on buyers, but I have no need or desire for it. I spent all my spkr budget on 2 spkrs. Seemed smarter for me to get 2 excellent spks as opposed to 6 ok spks with my $1500. The towers fill the small room plenty already.
I'd happily entertain the thought of a second hand unit, but have no idea where to turn for reputable dealers, so info on specific available used items would be great too.
I trust the opinions of you guys. I'm really out of the loop when it comes to this stuff. Help a buddy out, woodja? |
| Try to find an "integrated amp", unless you do FM. | Dave_G
Mar 3, 2003 2:17 PM | | If you really can spend $500 you can find a good deal on an integrated amp.
Unless you need FM.
Which means you want a receiver.
You should be able to find a 1 or 2 year old unit in the Bay area for that amount easily, or probably a brand new one.
Also AudioAdvisor.com might help.
Grease |
| I do FM | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 2:47 PM | | so I need a rcvr. |
| re: Help me buy a new receiver | MasterCylinder
Mar 3, 2003 2:44 PM | | It can be risky but, I bought a 2-channel Yamaha (similar to the same as yours) on eBay for $75.
I found some great old Sansui and Marantz units there, too.
I use it in my "vinyl" set-up, which is a completely segregated system fron my main HT.
I had a friend that recently bought a pair of KornerHorns (eBay) and the seller agreed to accept 1/2 $ up front and the other 1/2 upon inspection and listen.
You might look into it -- just a thought. |
| I am looking . . . | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 2:48 PM | | . . . for something modern which has enough inputs for all my components and a remote. |
| Surround does not necessarily mean surround... | DustyChalk
Mar 3, 2003 2:47 PM | | Surround receivers are much more plentiful, as you already noticed. You do not <I>have</I> to use them in surround mode -- you could use them to drive only two speakers, and they will have plenty of analog and digital inputs. I use either a Sony or Yamaha unit in the HT system where I live (will check when I get home), and it sounds like it would be perfectly acceptable for your purposes. Plus, you can upgrade later. I think it even drives 100W/channel.
(The classic line: ) If you want to spend a little bit more, I would get the new Pioneer that someone on this board got, but it's a bit more than you've currently budgeted.
<A href="http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetails/0,1422,92100,00.html">VSX-49TXi</A>
Maybe <I>after</I> the book comes out.
Not sure how happy you are with your CD player, but you also might want to look at getting one of those all-in-one units, like the Sony ES AVD-S50ES or AVD-C70ES, which handles SACD as well (US$800 and US$1K, respectively, at Crutchfield).
That said, the old receivers are really quite good. I just got an old Pioneer SX-70 (I think that's the designation) for US$150. So check the used section of your local hi-fi shops. I got mine from a place called "Sound Design by High Tech" (pretenti-ass name, cool place -- they're just trying to make a living). Has everything you want, TT input, stereo only. No digital inputs. :-( |
| Surround does not necessarily mean surround... | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 2:59 PM | | Surrounds are more plentiful . . . and more expensive.
Why pay for it if you're not going to use it?
That Pioneer is out of George Lucas's budget. Nope, l I don't buy into that stuff. Ditto the SACD and DVDA gear.
Any ideas on online used stuff? |
| It's a package deal... | DustyChalk
Mar 3, 2003 4:54 PM | | > Surrounds are more plentiful . . . and more expensive.
> Why pay for it if you're not going to use it?
I would have to disagree. At the level you're talking, it's actually more difficult for them to market a two-channel receiver. I mean, most receivers these days are surround, so it's actually twisting the manufacturer's arm to get them to do 2-channel only.
But I have to admit -- that Denon sounds like it's right up your alley.
> That Pioneer is out of George Lucas's budget.
Uh, no, actually, someone on this board -- I'm sure -- mentioned that they got it, and the corresponding universal player.
> Any ideas on online used stuff?
eBay, audiogon, audioasylum, this place, all have ad areas. Sorry, nothing particularly helpful. |
| re: Help me buy a new receiver | tugmcmartin
Mar 3, 2003 2:47 PM | | I had an old (1992-ish) Denon receiver up until about a year and a half ago. Put out about 90 or so watts i think. Anyway, i upgraded to the surround stuff for movie watching and stuff. I've got Denon now and have been very happy with their stuff (also have CD player). Never had any problems with anything they've put out. I know they have a 100watt/channel 2-channel receiver out now for about $500. They've also got an 80w one with dual zone capabilities which i like if you have two rooms you want to wire up for sound. I've also heard good things about Yamaha and Onkyo for midfi stuff.
BTW, if you wanted to i think you could upgrade to surround for not a lot of money (speaker wise). The big item would be the center channel, but considering the rear channels don't get that much work, you could go the cheap route and not notice a huge difference. Hope you don't mind some unsolicited 2cents worth.
Good luck with the search.
Tug |
| Thanks . . . | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 3:04 PM | | . . . for the poop on the Denon unit. That was one of the ones I looked at pretty hard: DRA685. Seems ok I guess.
Don't need the 2 zone thing, not he surround thing either. I've seen and heard lots of great HT systems and actually find surround to be artificial and intrusive. I've been round and round on this with my HT booster buddies, but it just ain't for me. My living room is rather small and difficult to wire for surround anyway. The big Klipsch's are more than enough for me. |
| if you're willing to go used, I think that's the best option | RPM
Mar 3, 2003 2:51 PM | | 2 channel receivers are unfortunately a dying breed. There probably are a few "new" units out there, but 100+ w/ch I think would be a limiting factor. Now in the used market, you've got Marantz, H/K, Carver, NAD, Tandberg, Luxman, Denon, Yamaha, etc.....all reputable long life brands. Do you have any specific features (i.e. phono stage, remote) or style (silver, gold, black, wood side panels) that you prefer?
There's many used Audio websites I can post if interested.
Rick |
| Thanks for the questions | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 3:12 PM | | Yes, me thinks used be the happening way to go.
Remote- yes.
Phono Stage- For my Close 'n Play® sensability? Hardly.
Style- I'm impartial, though gold sounds particularly ugly!
Other features? Not sure what my options are.
Yes, used dealers online you trust would be bitchen.
Thanks! |
| Used audio sights: | RPM
Mar 3, 2003 5:46 PM | | Ebay (duh!)
this place (duh!)
Half.com
http://www.audiogon.com/ (already mentioned)
http://www.audioshopper.com/cgi-bin/classifieds.asp?action=catlist
http://saturdayaudio.com/usedgear.htm
http://www.sharedstores.qwest.net/cgi-bin/tsto.storefront/3e64007b05d7a6aa27183fe01e650689/Catalog/1025
http://www.audioweb.com/ad/AdSearchManufacturer.asp
http://www.jeffssoundvalues.com/
I've used Audiogon, Ebay, and this sites used section without getting burned. Can't vouch for the others, but if you use common sense you should be OK. I like to ask for the sellers phone # and talk to them "live" before closing the deal, you get good vibes that way. |
| Those are all great options Rick | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 3:50 PM | | My advice would have been Luxman (Pre Alpine Takeover), NAD, Sansui, Tandberg, and Carver. Troy, try this site,
http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?miscrcvr&1&ctg&st1
this is a hi end used audio site much more reputable than E-Bay. I've snagged the URL for receivers, but you'll have to trudge thru the HT receivers to get to the stereo. Good Luck!! |
| My advice- stay away from NAD. | Finch Platte
Mar 3, 2003 5:03 PM | | I'm sure I'll catch grief for this. I bought a NAD integrated amp a few years back, and the thing died before it was even a year old. I bought it at the most expensive store in town, because I thought I was buying quality. Guess not. Expensive piece of crap- I'm
i still
pissed at it. Very limited piece of gear, too. Not many inputs.
Be sure you check and make sure what you get has plenty of inputs. I'm
i way
out of room on my Sony- the DVD/VHS, MiniDisc and CD burner are all vying for input/output space. I also wish it had turntable jacks :O(
My Sony receiver has treated me well- and, like you, I have no use for all the gadgetry it has (oooh,
b Digital Cinema Sound
! Waaa?).
fp |
| re: Help me buy a new receiver | tentoze
Mar 3, 2003 3:11 PM | | Like everyone else has said, 2-channel is getting scarce.
And, unless they've done a turnaround while I wasn't looking for the last several many years, most mainstream mfr's have forgotten what a TT input is. The TT input may be what drives your choice.
I made an impulse buy last year on a receiver- a Yahama 5-channel 100WPC w/ remote- don't remember the model #, but it was advertised as a close-out, for $109 US- I actually thought the ad was a typo, so I went to the place and sure enough, they had 'em. Very nice unit, but I ended up giving it my kidz because 100W just wouldn't drive my dahlquist dq-10's like the ole beast of a Denon POA-2200 does at 200(advertised)WPC. |
| Could this be your receiver? | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 4:00 PM | | http://java.audioasylum.com/ca/ad.jtp?ad=2146
I was at the Asylum looking for turntables a few minutes ago and said, what the heck, lets see if Troy's table is sitting over here. Maybe? |
| Maybe! | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 4:23 PM | | Any of you have this item? Can't seem to find a pic of it . . .
Reviews look good (except for a few ovewrheating issues) and it seems like a value.
Find me more, DLD!
Thanks,
Troy |
| denon 3300 | skewiff
Mar 3, 2003 5:19 PM | | Hi Troy
I just upgraded to a Pioneer Elite and I've got a near mint Denon avr 3300.
Skewiff@provide.net if interested.
Tony |
| Most NAD products look the same: black-n-basic | RPM
Mar 3, 2003 5:29 PM | | I've generally read good things about NAD, Finchy might have gotten the only lemon ;-).
Here's a link with pic's:
http://nadelectronics.com/hifi_receivers/index.htm |
| Ditto me about NAD = Good | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 5:44 PM | | Definitely not the ultimate word in hi end, but they've built some great little int'd amps. Had a friend who had a 30wrms that could damn near knock the walls down with clean sound with loads of punch to it. Personally I like that basic black, no frills styling, kinds hollers out, The bucks were spent on the INSIDE!! Good luck TP. |
| Don't touch Finchy's NAD! | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 5:48 PM | | Geez, was that a cheap shot or WHAT?
Yes, I've spoken with one of my oldest friends who had one years ago. Says he wishes he didn't sell it when he "upgraded" to some 5.1 HT bells and whistles unit.
Actually, that pic looks different than one I found here:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?miscrcvr&1047349785&auc&3&4& |
| Does this unit have enough inputs for you? | RPM
Mar 3, 2003 6:55 PM | | This is a very nice high power receiver, but it looks like only 3 inputs (cd/video/low level). You won't be able to use the phono input for anything except a TT.
the following info is from my Orion Bluebook:
NAD 7400 Monitor Series:
years made: 88-92
power: 100 w/ch
info: power envelope/bridgeable/14 presets/remote
original retail: $1000
used retail: $270
I find Orion's used pricing to be rather conservative, most quality stuff sells higher than their valuation. |
| Also has tape 1 & 2 inputs | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 8:42 PM | | That amounts to two more hi level inputs correct e mundo? Notice the guy is selling it on Audiogon and AA classifieds? |
| 2 different sellers actually. | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 9:43 PM | | Audiogon seller has $320 reserve and it looks fairly beat up.
The AA guy wants $300 and it's immaculate. I'm taking it.
Actually, I only need inpoots for my TT, CD and TV so I'm fine there. |
| Excellent! | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 9:51 PM | | I guess I saw his name elsewhere . I've been surfing for used gear all night (got another turntable (7th) and a cartridge). I thought the one on Audiogon looked rather overly broken in too. |
| Thanks . . . | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 10:38 PM | | . . . for bringing it to my attention!
For that I will send you a comp that you will never listen to! |
| Right here Troy | unleasHell
Mar 3, 2003 5:19 PM | | Funny I have a circa 1970's CR620 Yamaha out in the garage, bought it for $30 bucks at a thrift store and it still plays my garaged BES speakers fine.
Not much has changed, Yamaha is STILL a great buy, you will be hard pressed to find a 2-channel only BUT you can use the DEFEAT button to power ONLY the two Front ones (and a sub if you have one).
I have a two year old RX800 which is awesome, bet you could find one used for a great price.
Look around on this site somewhere there are listings of stereo gear for sale, I bough both pairs of my NHT's from people I met on here... |
| Troy, I'd recommend NAD or Rotel if you want a receiver | Audio Girl
Mar 3, 2003 6:38 PM | | and I recommend that you purchase it new.
There are a few things that I believe it is wise to purchase used versus new if found in high quality condition. But, a receiver is not one of them. Here's why: many things can be wrong with those units that can be hidden from the purchaser. The owner could have decided to play with it one night after too many hits on his bong; it could have received a variety of tweaks that are just too weird to mention and will affect its later life, plus children/smoke/pets can be a factor: "No Daddy, I did not poor my lemonade in the black box!"
If you want some solid advice, email Audio Concepts in Dallas, specifically Gary Sarles. Feel free to mention that I recommended you to him. He'll give you advice without any expectations. Then, if you decide to purchase from him, that's your decision. You can contact him by email at gary@audioconceptsonline.com. This guy is one of a kind: not out for the almighty buck. He could have sold me a much more expensive system than he did...he assisted me in purchasing the best system for my needs (and I saved over $5K). I also don't know whether they want to ship beyond Texas but I know he will help you out. If he doesn't, let me know. He'll get plenty of crap from me.
The other thing: if the NAD/Rotel/whatever
craps out on you in the future, he'll do everything he can to make it right. The owner (Mark) is a great guy too and will do everything he can to accomodate his customers.
Just my $.02,
Mary |
| Mary, are you trying to spend my tax return for me? | RPM
Mar 3, 2003 7:44 PM | | I can do that just fine on my own, thank you!
I was surprised that Rotel still made stereo receivers but low-and-behold they do! That 1050 is a mighty sweet looking unit. Your boy Gary just might be getting a call from me ;-).
No, probably not really...probably not. |
| this would be my choice. | rufus
Mar 3, 2003 8:34 PM | | but at retail $799 may be a bit pricey for you. but if you could get one at a good deal, it would be worth it. otherwise, the previously mentioned denon or even a new nad. i don't think yamaha would be a good match for klipsch. |
| Men generally would never listen to a female's perspective | Audio Girl
Mar 3, 2003 9:27 PM | | regarding audio equipment but I'd just encourage Troy to email Gary or call him. He's never led me wrong through many purchases. I've purchased the following from him:
1. Rega Planar 3 2000 + Super Bias Cartridge + RB300 tonearm (traded to upgrade to RP25)
2. Rega Planar 25 2000 + Super Elys Cartridge + RB600 tonearm (sold on Audiogon for almost what I paid new...18 months later)
3. LFD Mistral Integrated Amp
4. LFD Mistral Phono Preamp
5. Rotel RT-1080 AM/FM Stereo Tuner
6. Arcam CD72 CD Player (traded for Ayre CX-7)
7. Linn LP12 Sondek turntable, Basik tonearm, Adikt cartridge, Valhalla power supply
8. Proac Tablette 50 Signature Monitors
9. Ayre CX-7 CD Player
10. Many speaker cables, interconnects, LPs, etc.
In other words, I trust him. |
| Hey Mary | DLD
Mar 3, 2003 10:02 PM | | How do you like yer Pro Ac's? I remember when you were considering them. I almost bought a set in modest shape off E-Bay about the same time. As I recall, I just forgot about the auction and it ended before I could enter the bidding.
I think you were auditioning yours at the time. I ended up with AR 94s that I love but I've always wondered about those Pro Ac Tablettes.
Woo Hooo, its Mardi Gras tomorrow, a holiday. Gonna drink some Hurricanes if I can find a bar that sells em. Also, must eat King Cake and find the little guy hiding in it. If hes in your piece, its good gris gris for a year. |
| Hi Handsome | Audio Girl
Mar 3, 2003 10:21 PM | | I love these little Proac Tablette Sig 50s. These happen to be circa 2000 or so and Gary can explain the difference between these and current models. When I demoed, I preferred these over the new ones. And a bargain too...$700. Gonna give me $750 trade-in towards my speaker goal monster, Wilson Benesch Arcs. However, I'll probably hold on to these and incorporate into a sound system for Mr. Budget which I am planning for his birthday.
Ya know, I don't know too much about Mardi Gras except that women aren't expected to wear too much clothing but lotta beads. ;-) |
| Just the Arcs? | DustyChalk
Mar 4, 2003 7:25 PM | | I'm saving up for the Bishops!
Gawd, I wish.
http://www.nicproduction.ch/marken/wilson_benesch/bishop.htm
(Couldn't find anything on the Wilson Benesch site, could be they've discontinued them, which would suck. Might have to "settle" for the Chimera.) |
| I listen to woman's advice all the time. | Troy
Mar 3, 2003 10:46 PM | | I'm married, remember?
I'm going with the NAD. Alas, I do not have $50 bills haging out my butt so I gotta go the poor man's route and am getting a used 7400 for $300. After communicating with the private party and seening many photos of it, the deal looks smooth and safe.
thanks.
Troy |
| Sounds like a nice deal to me, Darlin' | Audio Girl
Mar 4, 2003 12:29 AM | | Enjoy that NAD. It sounds like if offers everything you are looking for! One word: CHEERS! |
| Troy, I'm a gear hound so this one is right up my alley.... | Chuck G
Mar 4, 2003 5:28 AM | | http://www.soundcity.com/product.php?id1=HOME%20AUDIO&product_id=12908 |
| It doesn't say how many inputs it has... | Finch Platte
Mar 4, 2003 7:08 AM | | ...does it? I can't read it off the picture.
Phono inputs- yeah!
fp
Reg. price- $349. Sale price- $349! |
| check this out.... | Chuck G
Mar 4, 2003 8:06 AM | | http://www.onecall.com/PID_18163.htm#
Click on additional views for a rear shot of the receiver. Cheaper as well. This is a solid 2 channel receiver I've recommended to several people with no complaints. Note its weight (24lbs). That is pretty solid. |
| I've bought a buncha stuff at One Call | DLD
Mar 4, 2003 4:58 PM | | in fact, I've prolly given the lion's share of my mail order business to them over the last 3 years. Seems like they can get darn near anything and they are an authorized NHT dealer. |
| Did someone say MIDFI??? | Mr MidFi
Mar 4, 2003 8:44 AM | | At your service! Sorry I didn't get to this sooner...busy at work.
I hate to disagree w/ Finch about NAD, but I must do so and vigorously. The first receiver I ever bought was a NAD, and I've abused it horridly for over 20 years. Still sounds great. I also like Onkyo & Denon products in your price range. All 3 brands = champagne & caviar performance at beer & pretzels prices!!! |
| Hey Troy, are you still taking requests? | RPM
Mar 4, 2003 12:21 PM | | Or is the NAD a closed deal? I came up with some other models if you're still interested. |
| It's a done deal. Thanks! | Troy
Mar 4, 2003 2:06 PM | | I ordered the NAD 7400 this AM. It was $300 (originally selling for $1000) which is a bit less than the going price for one of these in perfect condition. It looks immaculate in the pix he sent me and in talking to the guy on the phone this AM he seems to be the typical finicky audiophile type. I think it's gonna be perfect.
THANKS again to all the Rave Recs crew for all the help and suggestions!!!
Cheers,
Troy |
| Good luck, I hope it works out for you | RPM
Mar 4, 2003 2:28 PM | | That receiver should get you through the next 10 yrs. Something bugged me about your original post yesterday, you said you needed 100 w/ch to drive your Klipshes, but from what little I know about Klipsh I always thought they were reknowned for their high efficiency rating.
Are you basing your power needs on the physical size of the speeks? Don't get me wrong, more power is always better than not enough, but I'm thinking your Klipshes could be easily run with less power. Just something to keep in mind for the future :-).
A speakers efficiency is measured in db. ie; 87db, 90db, 95db. In general, the higher the number the less power the speaker requires.
Rick |
| Good luck, I hope it works out for you | Troy
Mar 4, 2003 4:13 PM | | The spks sensitivity are rated at 100db, but I bet I listen louder than most of the people here.
I wanted more clean power that I will never have to use.
The review section of this site treats those spks VERY well.
http://www.audioreview.com/Main+Speaker/Klipsch+KLF+20/PRD_119936_1594crx.aspx
I love 'em, but they are awful big. |
| I HOPE YOU CAN STILL HEAR US | RPM
Mar 4, 2003 5:56 PM | | After you hook that NAD up. Baby your gonna be able to play those pups at concert levels. Hope you're on good terms with all neighbors within a 1/4 mile radius :-)
Rick |
| 100DB?!?!? | DustyChalk
Mar 4, 2003 6:29 PM | | OMG, you could run those with a set of SET's. I'm jealous. IIRC, they just upgraded those, and have been garnering rave reviews everywhere. I'll double-check when I get home tonight. It was basically a corner-speaker, two-way design with a supertweeter (so no double-woofers). Dude, even at loud volumes, I doubt you're pulling more than a watt. Do you have a SPL meter? Do you know how loud 100db is? I SAID, DO YOU KNOW HOW LOUD 100DB IS?!?!? |
| Nope... | DustyChalk
Mar 5, 2003 1:53 PM | | ...I was thinking of the new JBL's (K2). At least, based on the one review I found (hi>fi+). I'll have to check the other magazines later. |
| |
