|   Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | newbster
Nov 11, 2003 6:13 PM | | An interesting observation. This is one of the best sounding cd's I've heard. And it hasn't even been remastered. The Bass is taut and well recorded being that the mic isn't on top of it. Same for the drums and sax. Enough room to breathe. No sibilance, no glare, no annoyamces. |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | rb122
Nov 12, 2003 4:47 AM | | Did you buy the single CD or the "Beauty is a Rare Thing" box set?
Funny but now that I think about it, I never noticed the sound of this disc, either on CD or vinyl. That could be because even though I prefer LP, I've not been a big fan of Columbia LP's from the 1960's through the dawn of the CD era. Or, more likely, it could be because the music is so incredibly beautiful that I get lost in it and the sonics go unnoticed.
Thanks for your post. I'll give it a more analytical listen tonight. |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | newbster
Nov 12, 2003 11:30 AM | | It's the single CD version. Actually it was released on the Atlantic label if I'm correct. I listened to the entire cd straight through and really enjoyed it. You can tell that this was a dump-the-analog-master straight onto cd. Sometimes it's better that way. Most of these deaf ass remastering shmucks who have cotton in their ears shouldn't be handling historic recordings. Miles Davis cd's are the perfect example. Try listening to the Porgy and Bess remaster. The worst I have heard yet is a lot of the older Blue Note stuff like Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil and Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage. Two gems that sound like digital trash. Anyway enjoy your listen. :) |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | DMK
Nov 12, 2003 6:00 PM | | Yes, you're correct - released on Atlantic. That label was rather cutting edge back then. It is a well recorded disc.
"Speak No Evil" is one I had the misfortune of hearing on CD. Most Blue Notes I have are on vinyl. And yes, it is a complete piece of crap on CD. So I replaced it with the 180 gram reissue LP. Still not as good as an original but much closer than the CD.
b Try listening to the Porgy and Bess remaster
No, thanks - you go ahead, though! :) |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | newbster
Nov 12, 2003 6:49 PM | | This is exactly the reason I'm not buying into SACD and DVD-A. Whenever I start to feel the cd is not up to snuff or tizzy I hear a good recording and say hmmmmmm this is good enough for me. I can't imagine what the Miles Davis stuff sounds like on SACD. Probably not much better or maybe even worse. And the idea of hearing John Coltrane in my rear left/right speakers is a joke. I'm satisfied with 2 channel. Are the Blue Note releases on LP expensive? I was thinking about getting an entry level TT for the vinyl equivalent of crappola cd's. What does your analog rig consist of, DMK? |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | rb122
Nov 13, 2003 5:04 AM | | The SACD I've heard is very good. The "why" is the big question. I've come to believe that SACD is an "audiophile's medium" - at least at this point - and, as such, the care in remastering is par excellence. It's too early for me to compare it to vinyl.
I won't answer for DMK but I think it's an excellent idea for you to get a TT. I'd recommend the Music Hall MMF2.1 which runs about $300 for table, arm and cartridge. Then later you can upgrade the cartridge if you want to play around with improving the sound. I've got about $1500 in an LP playback rig but, believe me, you don't have to go anywhere NEAR that amount to get better sound than CD. $300 will get you there. Or check Ebay or Audiogon. If you're familiar with your brands, you could buy used for even less. www.audiogon.com if you're interested. Be sure to check the seller's feedback. |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | newbster
Nov 13, 2003 7:01 AM | | There's a dealer near me that stocks the MMF-2.1 for $300 with a 10% discount. That's probably a good deal for $270. I'd really like to get a record cleaning machine as well. What do you think? |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | rb122
Nov 13, 2003 10:23 AM | | Yes, $270 for that player is a good deal. Again, you can later upgrade the cartridge if you want. A record cleaning machine is an excellent idea. Just about any record cleaning solvent loosens the dirt in the record grooves. The real problem is removing it from the surface. The vacuum action of the RCM's does that. They're more expensive than, say, the Disc Doctor cleaning system which uses brushes and distilled water but they're less of a hassle and do as good or better of a job.
I remember when I first got into vinyl. At 31 years of age, I postdate the vinyl era - at least my consumerism does. It wasn't until a few years ago that I first heard it done properly. I've been hooked ever since. Enjoy your journey! I think you'll be pleased with the results. |
| re: Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come | DMK
Nov 13, 2003 5:27 PM | | I own a VPI/Rega/Ortofon rig plus outboard phono stage. The brands don't matter nearly as much as the satisfaction one gets from spinning vinyl. As rb mentioned, the Music Hall is a fine 'table and well worth the $270.
The 180 gram Blue Notes are available from www.amusicdirect.com. I can't recall how much they cost but I think they're comparable in cost to the CD - but better sounding! |
| Spy Vs. Spy-The Music of Ornette Coleman | Jim Clark
Nov 13, 2003 6:12 AM | | Not a big jazz fan in the least but I did happen upon this John Zorn manic interpretation of the music. I'm familiar with Zorn through his album-"The Big Gundown, the Music Of Ennio Morricone". Even had a track on the Halloween Rave Recs comp. I pulled this one mainly due to 1). John Zorn and 2). The Mad Magazine connection! I'm figuring that if I don't like this chances are slim I will find much jazz out there that I can really like.
I found it at the library so if you're at one you might be interested in checking around to see if yours has a copy. I'm not saying you'll like it but it might be interesting for you to hear this violent, manic, and frenetic interpretation of 17 tracks. I don't think you'll spend too much time focusing on the sound quality, you'll probably be spending that time going "what the L?".
jc |
| ahh, great album! | Jar
Nov 13, 2003 8:40 AM | | well you might not think it's so great..
it was a heavy-rotation album back when I was a college dj.. I'm thinking it came out right around 1990? everyone was playing that album.. no matter the genre.. the rock shows, the jazz shows, the freeform shows.. I never got around to picking it up myself though.
-jar |
| Spy Vs. Spy-The Music of Ornette Coleman | rb122
Nov 13, 2003 10:31 AM | | That project was Zorn's foray into "thrash jazz" using Ornette's highly melodious tunes. Most of the tunes are fairly simple and they lend well to the style Zorn and Co employ.
If you're interested in John Zorn's music, I would posit that much of it isn't "jazz" as it is commonly known. You might try some of his Naked City discs which are more of a hybrid of various styles (rock, jazz, surf, film) and a lot of odd time signatures and quick shifting of genres. Also, his Painkiller projects might be to your liking - sort of a jazz power trio music. Definitely stay clear of his game pieces - discs with titles such as "Hockey", "Archery", "LaCrosse" and "Cobra". Zorn does very little of what most people think of as typical jazz. If you want to read a bit about these discs, check out www.tzadik.com which is Zorn's CD label. If you're into heavy indie-type rock, the disc by the Japanese group Friction is incredible! It's not a Zorn disc; it's just on his label. Lots of other artists on that label as well.
Spending time going "What the..." is part of the fun! :) |
| Painkiller | Jar
Nov 13, 2003 11:05 AM | | EXECUTION GROUND is one of the my favorite cd's ever. Easily in my top 10 of the 90's. It's just.. total nightmare music.
-jar |
| Painkiller | rb122
Nov 13, 2003 1:23 PM | | Yes, I like that one a lot! Total nightmare music is a good way to describe it. :) |
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