|   cryogenically treated tubes | eliot
Nov 13, 2002 2:04 PM | | I just ordered two cryogenitecally treated 12AU7 tubes to put in my Conrad Johnson PV12 preamp. I really should have checked this site first, but , anyway, is there anything to such treatment? The guy I talked to claimed they were superior to untreated tubes. I hope this isn't snake oil! |
| re: cryogenically treated tubes | Response
Nov 14, 2002 4:55 PM | | We may be offering them as an upgrade in our custom Hybrid amplifiers after we have had some time to do some listening. We already use the cryo wiring throughout the unit as seen below (if it shows up).
Only you can determine if the investment was justifiable. Keep us posted.
Happy Listening<
Bill |
| Nevermind the tubes - tell us more about that preamp! | Lazarus Short
Nov 20, 2002 4:52 AM | | |
| Laz- | Haoleb
Nov 20, 2002 8:21 AM | | You can go to www.responseaudio.com and find out more about that stuff. i think thats Bill's RAM 301 or whatever the model number is. |
| heh im so dumb -nt | Haoleb
Nov 21, 2002 8:08 PM | | |
| I had a look, thanks Haoleb! It was an interesting site... | Lazarus Short
Nov 23, 2002 8:14 PM | | |
| Nevermind the tubes - tell us more about that preamp! | eliot
Nov 21, 2002 3:05 PM | | I'm not sure what to say about the preamp; it's a Conrad Johnson PV12. I'm extremely happy with it. There are several upgrades that CJ has come out with since the PV12. One is a slight upgrade to the PV12A. The most recent , I think, is call the ART. It's quite expensive. I'm sure you can find out more by contacting Conrad Johnson. For what it's worth, I also use a CJ two-piece CD player, consisting of a seperate transport and a seperate tube DAC ( I think is called the DA-2b). One of my amps is an all tube Fourier OTL. It's a huge monster of a thing with 16 output tubes. The other amp is an old solid state MacIntosh something- or -other ,which is used for the bass; the OTL is used for the higher frequencies. The speakers are KEF Reference Three-Two's. The sound is really something. |
| The amp shown above. | Response
Dec 3, 2002 7:40 AM | | Well, If you are refering to the amp shown above. It is a heavily modified version of the Jolida JD301 Hybrid unit rated at 30 wpc. The preamp stage runs in Class A operation with no negative feedback. Changing the signal tubes to 12AU7's from 12AX7's and upgrading all the internal components. The wiring used is Jana Labs "Jena Wire" and yes it is Cryo treated.
We can thank Dan of ModWright for the design of these amps.
A review on this product is actually due out shortly (another week or so). I will have a link to the review on our website www.responseaudio.com.
I realize there are many who may not see any benifit or reasoning in cryo treatment but we are working on a Cryo treated power supply and tubes for these RAM amps.
I am not one to argue on these discussion boards and truly beleive that it is one's ears that should be used for evaluating.
Build your system for yourself, not the critics.
Happy Listening
Bill |
| re: cryogenically treated tubes | skeptic
Nov 15, 2002 7:02 AM | | This is the first time I've ever heard of this but my first reaction is that it sounds crazy. I assume that the tubes (or wire) are dipped in liquid nitrogen until they are a couple of hundred degrees below zero and then allowed to return to room temperature. BTW, this is an easy thing to do (not counting breakage) and shouldn't cost much to anyone who already has a plant that handles liquid nitrogen. It's hard to see what advantage this could possibly serve. With any luck, when the tubes or wire thaw out, they will return to their original states without any ill effects. Sounds to me like another gimmick to make an extra buck or just be different. What are the advantages claimed for this? |
| re: cryogenically treated tubes | eliot
Nov 21, 2002 3:15 PM | | The guy at tubeman.com (561 434 3799 in Florida) , who sold them to me, said that the cryo treatment changes the crysalline structure of the metals in the tube. This is probably true, but I don't think he knows WHY such a chage improves anything. I haven't been able to find out anything more -- that's why I posted here, hoping to find out more. I can tell you-- definitely -- that the sound got much better, but it's been suggested to me the improvement resulted because the new (French military grade) tubes ARE better tubes -- not because of the liquid nitrogen treatment. I like to try crazy things. so I gave it a try. I'm not sorry. |
| Good for you!! | Response
Dec 3, 2002 8:03 AM | | I like to try crazy things. so I gave it a try. I'm not sorry.
That's what this hobby is all about. Trying different things and not having regrets.
Happy Listening.
Bill |
| Good for you!! | muralman1
Dec 7, 2002 10:04 AM | | My source for the "perfect tube" withdrew from sale the popular tubes and cryo'd them all, doubling the price. Those tubes will still be the best, but I won't be paying for them.
This sounds like all that aftermarket power cord jazz. Skeptic, I'm with you on this one. |
| Metalurgy 101 | skeptic
Jan 30, 2003 8:14 AM | | Changing crystaline structure usually involves a careful process of annealing (softening) quenching (hardening) and is performed at very specific temperatures and for fixed durations. If there was an advantage to cryo treatment, the parts should be treated before they are assembled into a vacuum tube, not after. Perhaps the high cost reflects the high breakage and other failures (envelope failure) encounter by treating the completed tube. Anybody try anything like this in say a lab at work? Still sounds crazy. BTW, I'd bet that the French tubes are better because they are just better manufactured. I think you're comparing apples and oranges. You can't be sure if it was the cryo process that made the difference. |
| Seems to me that this is not snake oil because | Mash
Feb 12, 2003 9:34 PM | | .... at least you could burn snake oil in your oil lamp and be enlightened. This cyro-jazz on vacuum tumes makes no sense at all except as a mysterious method for making money.
Change the crystylline structure of the metal? If that were possible, WHY do you think such a change would be a good thing? Like, consider how easy it can be to make metal brittle, and when brittle metal suddenly heats up... nevermind. And do you really think that the engineers who were smart enough to design and develop those tubes somehow were too dumb to think of this wonderful mystery process? Just think about these questions....
Now lets hear about the Lazarus amp. [I had bought two matched sets of eight 6MH6's from a former Lazarus owner for my Futtermans.] |
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