|   Are tube amps really better sounding the ss amps? | Beckman
Feb 6, 2003 8:26 PM | | Three questions:
1. Are tube amps better sounding than ss amps and if so, why?
2. Are vintage tube amplifiers worth the money being payed on e-bay for them because of their sound quality, or because they are old.
3. I am interested in putting together a low wattage stereo, 5 - 15 watts, with a turntabe,integrated tube amp, and transmission line speakers. Could this be done for less than $500, and still sound good? |
| re: Are tube amps really better sounding the ss amps? | Lazarus Short
Feb 7, 2003 5:04 AM | | Three answers (there may be more):
1. My take on this is that a transistor acts more as a switch, making it good for digital signals. A tube acts more as a valve (called so in the UK), making it good to control a rising and falling (analog) signal. Therefore, I conclude that tubes are better for music, all else being equal, etc., etc. This is not to deny that there are good transistor amps out there.
2. Some vintage amps sound good, some don't. Components get old, esp. caps. Some of the price bidding has to do with nostalga (sp?).
3. Try this: Stax earspeakers with tube driver and the TT of your choice...
Laz |
| re: Are tube amps really better sounding the ss amps? | skeptic
Feb 9, 2003 1:05 PM | | First let me clear up the misconception that somehow tubes are analog amplifiers and transistors are switches. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both devices can be used for both purposes. Tubes were used as switches in early computers but because of the number required, their close proximity, their inefficiency, and their average lifespan, they were so unreliable, that they were impractical for this purpose. Transistors can be optimized for either function and the results you get depends on what the designer selects and how he uses it.
Neither device actually has a characteristic sound of its own. However, both types have their own inherent quirks that can give rise to particular kinds of distortion unique to each if not well utilized. There are vacuum tube and transistor designs that are indistinguishable from each other in their performance.
Because vacuum tubes have a high internal impedence, they require an impedence matching transformer to make it possible for them to deliver power to loudspeakers which present a very low load impedence. Much of what is called "tube sound" is due to the characteristics and limitations of these transformers. If you like the sound of tubes, try an early McIntosh solid state amplifier which used auto-transformers and see if you can hear a difference between that and a tube amplifier. The one exception to this output transformer problem was a design pioneered by Julius Futterman which used no output transformer to couple tubes. Clever and unique, it requried very accurate biasing and adjustments which could only be made by him took an entire day. New York Audio Labs took death bed testimony from Mr. Futterman and recovered all of his notes and records from his wife. They modernized the design and released it using a solid state power supply. They made a presentation at the AES show and shortly after at the WQXR auditorium in the New York Times building in 1983. To my ears they sounded just like a fine solid state amplifier. They built a rig that allows them to make accurate adjustments in just five minutes. Heaven help you though if you need to rely on someone else.
Bipolar power transistors also have problems. They have rather irregular (nonlinear) characteristics at low signal levels if they are not matched and biased properly. This characteristic harsh sound sometimes called bright was associated with "crossover notch distortion which was most evident at low listening levels. This problem of early transistor amplifiers was largely overcome and became far less of a problem especially with the development of power mosfet or vfet transistors. To prove it manufacturers began to specify nonlinear distortion and noise by stating it including the qualifier "up to rated power" scince previously it was assumed that noise and distortion decreased at lower power levels.
Each amplifier should stand on its own merits regardless of design type. Choose one you like, there are many fine examples of both types which should satisfy even the most demanding audiophiles.... unless they are positively nuts.
BTW, some of the old units command high prices because they really are collectors items. Like owning a Rolls Royce, ownership of well preserved or restored McIntosh or Marantz tube equipment gives the lucky owners pride and satisfaction which transcends their audio performance.
Be warned, old amplifiers may have electrolytic capacitors that have leaked internally, failed and need replacement. Obtaining replacements may be difficult or impossible because the demand for them no longer exists in our solid state world. Also be warned that many tube amplifiers don't take kindly to being operated without a connected load and that we take for granted this ability with solid state amplifers, one mistake in this regard can result in a very expensive repair bill for a vacuum tube amplifier. |
| Absolutely, Positively, maybe. It depends. | Mash
Feb 12, 2003 8:17 PM | | I have 1975 vintage Futtermans, and they were upgraded to self-biasing by the tech wizzard from NYAL. So far, the sound I get is very, very good. But I do use them with my main Magniplanars, and Maggies do seem to really shine with tube amps. I had tried my main Maggies years ago with a few "good" class AB ss amps, and the results with those ss amps were poor.
Some speakers, on the other hand, will not 'shine' with tube amps.
I also use a Musical Fidelity A2 class A SS integrated amp to drive a pair of Magniplanar MMG's and I get a most favorable result. A tube amp with the MMG's might be better. |
| Absolutely, Positively, maybe. It depends. | muralman1
Feb 17, 2003 2:38 PM | | Sceptic, that was marvelous. Another urban legend shot down. Bravo! I have owned both tube and solid state amplifiers, and have found examples of both I enjoyed equally well. Right now I use very fine solid state mono blocks. I prize an amp for it's clarity coupled with an ability to shoulder tough loads. |
| re: Are tube amps really better sounding the ss amps? | 300A
Feb 23, 2003 10:25 PM | | Maybe Used components for $500.00.
A good OTL amp doesn't sound anything like most SS amps, especially in the bass region.
The main differences is in the harmonics generated. Most SS products higher order harmonics while triode amps produce more low order harmonics. Makes a difference with good source and speakers.
Tubes tend to have more openness, and low level detail. Some designers of either type may use harmonics to enrich the sound and make it appear to have more inner detail.
Hope this helps. |
| re: Are tube amps really better sounding the ss amps? | jbangelfish
Mar 8, 2003 5:28 PM | | I'd say it's in the eye (ear) of the beholder. I'd love to hear a really nice all tube system but have not had the opportunity. What I have heard is many SS systems as most of us have and a few with tubes just in the preamp. I rather like this arrangement and is what I currently listen to. I can't imagine all the tube changes and combinations that I would have to try if I had all tube components. I have only a tube phono stage (only 5 tubes and still hard to find that perfect combo) which feeds my Class A SS preamp and two stereo/bridged mono SS amps. This gives me loads of punch from the SS and a little sweetness from the tube phono stage. Sounds fantastic. |
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