|   for Johnnny...about subs.. | estan
Apr 7, 2001 3:43 PM | | John... thanks for the specs on your gear.
From all that I can surmise I don't think a sub is something you want to get involver with at this point in time unless you are willing to do a custom home built installation or find some very big and bulky professional sound reinforcement gear.
Here is why...and I suspect I'll get some arguments to the contrary.
You have very efficient 3 way speakers (102 dB,(2.83v/1M) in decent sized bass reflex enclosures (almost 7 cu ft.). Most of the mid fi subs out there will not be a good match as you already have 15" bass drivers that are capable of moving a whole lot of air. you would need a sub that has at least the same capabilities but at the very lowest octaves. This would have to match the efficiency of what you already have. You would probably have some big problems at the crossover frequencies with anything but a huge bass reflex design or an even bigger infinite baffle.
I think you would need at the very least another 15" or maybe 2 per enclosure and these would be much larger than the CV's in a bass reflex design. You would need a pretty good x-over network and probably some EQ on the bass to get a good match. It is very doable but will get quite expensive as it will require a pretty hefty power amp to keep it all under control. The CV's put out a ton of energy per watt and the Carver has pretty decent power so I think a good balancing act is a far better solution for the time being...unless you can get some big CV disco subs or others such as Community, JBL or Altec, Klipsh or UREI. I'm afraid that anything less will never be able to keep up with the CV's.
A simple balancing act could be in some professional EQ. This will help also with the room problems.
A great vintage unit and the only one that I would consider is the Crown. It had very little effect on the sound quality...much less than the cheap tone controls in most mid fi gear. I don't know what they go for on the used market and I doubt if they are cheap.
But what a difference it can make if used properly. A lot of purists will get on my case about this but unless you've been there please reserve comments. In your case I think it is the most cost effective solution. If you ever want to get into a high end system the Crown might have to go but you might even make a profit on it if you buy it right. You would be best to rent or borrow a spectrum analyzer with a white noise generator and really get it right. A good vintage spectrum analyzer is the IVIE. There is not a concert that you attend that doesn't use a bunch of EQ and most all pop and rock recordings use it so a bit in your home won't hurt.
Stan |
| re: for Johnnny...about subs.. | estan
Apr 7, 2001 8:22 PM | | John...click on the link to My iDisk at Mac.com below...I posted a couple of images of my vintage Mac sys. You can download them or just preview them. There are a few other pix up there...some jazz musician friends of mine...my wife and our dog Henry...a shot of Pete Townsend that I did when he was in NY years ago (we did a lot of partying together as you might be able to tell from the eyes)...an art photo of a young lady friend of mine... and 3 shots of my sys in my living room..which consists of a McIntosh C-22 preamp, 2 Mac M-75 monobloc power amps, on the very top of the rack is the AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 cd player and now on the window sill is a Dyna FM-3 tuner. This is an all tube system including the cd player. The speakers are also vintage of sorts as they are from the 80's. They are Spica TC50's on custom SoundAnchor stands which weigh in at eighty 80lbs each...in the center is a custom subwoofer that weighs 105 lbs. and uses 2 downfiring 7" bass drivers in a folded horn configuration. The sub and the TC-50's were designed to not need a x-over between them and they are connected in parallel to the amps. There is a resistor and a bandpass network in the sub to only pass frequencies below 70hz with about an 18db/octave rolloff of the top. This way there is no effect on the TC-50's bottom end which is good down to about 55hz.
This is an awesome sounding system but it won't play nearly as loud as yours. The detail and imaging are amazing and in my NY apartment I still have to be careful with the neighbors. If you want to see some in more detail I can email them to you....and yes my main gig for the past 30 years has been in fashion photography with producing some pop music a serious sideline.
Regards...Stan |
| try this for pix | estan
Apr 7, 2001 8:29 PM | | I don't think the images came through so try to go to this URL
http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=estan&templatefn=FileSharing.html
or this one...
http://homepage.mac.com/estan |
| Beautiful Stuff ... | moon
Apr 8, 2001 8:14 PM | | Beautiful Stuff Stan! You have deffinately tweaked my interest on the AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 cd player. I've read some great things about it... Here & Elsewhere. May have to be my next sound investment
Happy Listening!
mOOn
By the way... Do you mind if I ask what line of work you're in?
Take care. |
| Beautiful Stuff ... | estan
Apr 8, 2001 8:33 PM | | M00n...to much info for the forum...
email me at
estan@nyc.rr.com
and I'll answer your question.
regards,
Stan |
| re: for Johnnny...about subs.. | estan
Apr 8, 2001 8:55 PM | | don't let my rants scare you...
The spectrum analyzer is pretty easy to use...you can even get one for your computer. all you need is a decent sound card and a good wide range microphone and some software which I'm sure I can find for you...
Anyway all it is is a bunch of lights that are at the same frequencies as the eq sliders and all you have to do is slide the eq's up and down until all the lights are in a fairly straight line or "flat". Then you boost the bass to where it sounds the best and you're all set. the white noise generator just plugs into you're AUX input and makes noise that the microphone listens to and feeds it to the analyzer...
Really nothing much to it .
You could do the whole thing by ear but I guarantee you'll never get it right with an EQ that has as much control as the Crown.
BTW there are some other good eq's around but the cheaper home units won't do it.
Stan |
| My wife`s from Germany....... | estan
Apr 8, 2001 11:00 PM | | hello to the fraulien...
I love ZZ tOP but I have never heard them on my sys...
I am setting up a dedicated computer with a high end sound card to give me MP3 straight to the preamp. I will do a bunch of ZZ as soon as it's up and running.
Your sys is much more suitable for ZZ and Led Z and I usually have to limit that to in the car when I am cruising alone or with my son Justin. We bring the Powerbook G3 and connect it to the car stereo and carry about 10 gigs of MP3's. I even have a pair of drumsticks under the seat somewhere.
You will never get the correct settings for your room acoustics by ear alone with an EQ that has the wide range of control as the Crown...just trust me on this
I was just looking around for some lower end EQ's and this one has a built in spectrum analyzer...
AudioSource EQ eight model II
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Other/product_5369.shtml
I think Infinity made some great speakers especially the ones with the EMIM mids and the EMIT tweets. They have a much finer sound than the CV's but will not play nearly as loud or put out nearly as much bass unless you get into their big stuff and then you are talking about some truly awesome speakers. Getting replacement drivers for them might be a problem. If you like a very accurate sound like a studio monitor see if you can find a pair of Yamaha NS-1000's...they are truly a work of art from the High Tech era. They will need a monster amp but they are a recording industry standard even today. You will have to save up for these babies but they're worth every penny...but again you should find some to listen to first...check your local recording studios.
Honestly though...nothing much is going to crank like the CV's but they were designed for very high volume and i'm afraid not much else. You will certainly take some getting used to smaller less efficient speakers...
gotta get to sleep....later...stan |
| AudioSource EQ eight model II | moon
Apr 9, 2001 8:19 AM | | Johnny - In case you're interested, I found this one on ebay. Check it out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227358300 |
| MP3 straight to pre amp? more info please. (nt). | estan
Apr 10, 2001 1:41 PM | | simple to do...line out from computer sound card to aux in at the preamp. The great thing about this is the programming ability I have with the playlist. The sound won't be quite as good as cd's but with minimum compression, fast hard drives and a very good sound card it will be pretty acceptable.
I will not be keeping the computer near the stereo system so I will be using a very high quality low capacitance stereo cable for the 100 foot run (Gotham GAC - 2pair)
Stan |
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