|   Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | moon
Apr 12, 2001 7:06 AM | | I'm curious... What would be the best, most affordable way to go with a McIntosh amp & pre-amp. Around 200 (Tube watts) per side? I'm by no means ready to make the plunge yet, but I would like to start researching these questions, so I can sort of get an idea of what's what. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
mooney |
| Looking for McIntosh Info... UPDATE. | moon
Apr 12, 2001 8:18 AM | | Well after looking around a bit... Maybe 200 (Tube watts) per side was asking a bit too much!
How about just some General Info. Maybe that would be a good place to start. I'm pretty green when it comes to this tube stuff.
Thanks again! |
| Looking for McIntosh Info... UPDATE. | ckelly
Apr 12, 2001 9:57 AM | | Moon
I know nothing about tubes but I found a very good McIntosh page
http://sundial.sundial.net/~rogerr/
Christopher |
| Thank's Amigo! (nt). | moon
Apr 12, 2001 10:11 AM | | |
| Looking for McIntosh Info... UPDATE. | estan
Apr 12, 2001 10:50 AM | | Good call Chris...Roger Russell's site is a wealth of info.
Audio Classics is the preferred authority on the vintage gear as far as the Mac factory is concerned. They are in Vestal NY which is right next to Binghampton which is where McIntosh Labs are located. You can call Ryan and ask him all the questions you have and he is really a great guy.
Visit their site at...
www.audioclassics.com
There are a few great Mac service guys around the country but I don't have first hand experience with them. When Ryan did a service for me last year the 75's came back bolted to 1/2 " plywood boards and suspended in heavy double shipping boxes. You could have dropped these off a truck and nothing would happen to them.
Stan |
| Looking for McIntosh Info... UPDATE. | Jerry O
Apr 12, 2001 10:11 AM | | You won't find a MAC 200 wpc tube amp. What's your budget? What speakers are you driving? If you want vintage, then the best you can do is the 75 wpc stereo or mono amps. The most popular vintage tubed preamp was the C22. Of course, you're looking at 35 to 40 years old stuff. If you want MAC stuff a bit more recent, then I'd recommend the MAC C22 "Reissue", wonderful tubed remake of the classic, and only about 5 years old. For more recent tube amp, the MAC 75 wpc stereo "reissue" as well. But, if you need more power, then you need to go solid state: 7150, 7200 7270, 7300, 300. Regards, Jerry O. |
| Looking for McIntosh Info... UPDATE. | moon
Apr 12, 2001 12:43 PM | | Thanks a lot for your info Jerry. I'll check em' out.
moon |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | estan
Apr 12, 2001 10:38 AM | | m00n...
The first part of this is what speakers are you intending to use?
Need to know a bit about how efficient they are. If you are in the high 80's say about an SPL of 88db at 1 watt/meter or above you will be ok with even 60 watts per channel. If you are way above that say in the mid 90's than 40 watts will be fine but if you are in the mid to lower 80's than the 75's are the only way to go. These amps do not increase their power at lower impedances the way solid state amps do. They have these huge output transformers which are tapped for the impedance of the speakers. The vintage units have taps at 4, 8 and 16 ohms. You can drive a 2 ohm load but you will heat up the Autoformers a bit at high volumes and probably shorten tube life a bit.
The great thing is the way Mac rates their gear. My MC75's put out well over 90 watts each and sound like 150 watts each.
The most cost effective way to get into a Mac preamp is something like the 110 which is a preamp/tuner. For some reason these never got ridiculus with the collectors and you should be able to find one for about $500 in good shape if you're patient. If you do see a clean one at that price I would grab it as they don't come along very often. Of course the absolute most sought after Mac preamp is the C-22 and that is going for big bucks. They are getting $2500 for it at Audioclassics with a warranty. I think you can maybe get one for about $1200 if you're lucky. One thing in your advantage is with the economy going south there are not as many people willing to spend the bucks on this stuff so maybe the prices will drop a bit. The big problem on EBay is the Asian bidders who will push the prices through the roof for this stuff. These guys are serious about collecting this gear and seem to have unlimited cash. Also since new tube gear is becoming more affordable with amps getting down in the $1500 dollar range for a really good tube monobloc I think some people are going in that direction so there might be a bit less interest in the vintage gear...
If it is only for the sound Mac made their industrial line of really ugly versions of the MC75's and these are called MI75's. Same parts, butt ugly but with the same performance. These are relatively cheap at $350 - $500 each.
A lot more to discuss about the preamp and what your needs are.Give me some info on source material...cd player and phono.
Two other cool things...the Macs are auto biasing so you never have to fiddle with tube bias in the power amps also you don't need to buy matched pairs of the output tubes. Just make sure the associated caps and resistors are in spec and also there is no need for fancy speaker cable because of the transformers. Just get the best constructed 12 or 14 guage you can find. A bit of a different case with the phono input and aux input for the cd player. Here I have done a lot of experimenting and cables do make a difference. The other neat thing is that most of their preamps have variable input pots so you can set the sensitivity to match your source components and therefor not overload the preamp stages.
Answer my questions and we'll go from there....Stan |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | moon
Apr 12, 2001 12:23 PM | | Stan - Thanks for all the info. Like I said in my earler post, it will be a while before I can afford to do anything at all, but I'm considering a pair of Dahlquist 10's. I have a pair of 9's now & I really like them a lot. I've also been thinking about the ah! Tjoeb CD player, but I'm still doing research. As for a Tuner... Well... radio blows around here, so I really don't have any use for one. Right now I have a Sansui 9090DB running my 9's. Sounds great, but I'm very interested in checking into the Mac equipment for possible future soundz.....................
Thanks again for your help.
mOOn |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | estan
Apr 12, 2001 2:53 PM | | DQ10's are a kick ass speaker especially if you can build some stands to get the tweeters up to ear level...I love em...almost bought them years ago but went with Apogee full range ribbons.
Have you heard those...very special...need solid state class A to drive them properly...preferably an old Krell KSA or an Aragon. The first amp I used with them was the original
Rappaport Model 1 a monster of a class A space heater or stovetop. Finally blew it the fu@k up and got a KSA 50...not enough power so I went for the big bucks and got the Krell KSA 100...beautiful match. That was in the days when I could afford those toys.
BTW...where do you live?
Stan |
| The Frozen Cow... | moondog
Apr 12, 2001 6:06 PM | | Stan....... I come to you from the Land of The Frozen Cow..........
Peoria, ILL - IN - NOISE.......
Our only claim to fame here is...
Richard Pryor & Sam Kinison
(ya gotta love that) !
Then there's a couple of shitty bands of course that I won't mention...
As for ME???
I've been a Computer Graphic Artist for the past 12 years
and A Mad-Man-Drummer since I was 8 years old ...
(in case anybody REALLY cares to know... I beat on sh*t)!!!
from the dark side...
it's ThE mOOn HoG
FYI... I'm 45 now... (but headin' for 13 really fast)!!! |
| The Frozen Cow... | estan
Apr 12, 2001 9:38 PM | | I knowz it well...
we moved to Chicago when I was 3 and we ended up in the burbs in a place called Park Forest. Stayed until my dad ran off with a babe to the So Cal beaches and then moved back to NY with mom when I was 13.....I saw a sh*tload of corn and locusts and played a lot of baseball. Built my first crystal set and got my ham license before I new what a wanker was. I really got my introduction to audio out there. I remember the sound so clearly of my neighbor's first home built kit hifi. A tube mono amp, woofs and tweets man. Bass and treble and some fu@king ridiculus Spike Jones record. Well I walked out of there hooked and started building kits from Allied Radio and later Heath.
I'd love to check out your work...hook me up on email
I'm 56 and definitely stopped emotional development at an early age.
Stan |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | Brian Levy
Apr 13, 2001 7:20 AM | | 200 watts tube will put you into the the linited production MC2500 (I think that was the model from the 60s) This puppy will fetch BIG buscks today even if it could be found. Also, expect to get a dedicated ac line.
As an alternative and very affordable, although a compromise would be the MX110 tuner/preamp which is undervalued and overlooked (thank goodness). It has both a superb tuner and preamp amp and with little work can go head to head with almost anything McIntosh put out in their tube line. Differences in sound are evident but in a $ to difference ratio, not substantial.
Couple this with the 1st gen MC2100 or MC2105 poswer amp at 105 watts/. Frank did a very good job in maintaining the tubelike charactoristics of his line in this ss piece. Is it as good as say the 275? Most will say no and I can not disagree. However, it does come close enough to allow those who are financially challenged to experience Mc quality sound until they decide to move to a tube amp. These amps are still very reasonably priced costing no more than some of the ss mid-fi pieces of today.
The Mc ss amps even if replaced with tubes will make the foundation for an excellent 2nd system. |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | estan
Apr 13, 2001 8:33 AM | | Brian...that's all correct and confirms my original post where I mentioned the 110 but even though I have great respect for the early SS amps I don't think I would go for them....they are great but I don't think they really come close to the tube units in sound quality. Not worse or better just different. The 275 is so hot an item right now that I would probably stay away from it also but the MC75's and even more so the MC60's can be grabbed for a pretty good deal if you're very patient. Probably about half of what the classic equipment retailers are asking...if you're lucky. |
| FYI, MC2100 and MC2120 can be bought for < $500 on eBay | Dougman
Apr 13, 2001 10:25 AM | | The MC2120 is the next generation after the MC2100.
It seems that the going rate for a MC2100 is $350-$425, while the MC2120 appears to go for around $50 more. They are also not cheap to ship, as their packed weight is between 60 and 70 pounds. I will have one of each when the folks at UPS complete their appointed task and bring these puppies to their new home (mine). At that point, I'll provide some more informed comparisons. The 2120 is rated at 120 W/ch the 2100 at 100/ch. FYI, the MC2105 and the MC2125 are the same amps, but with those nice big blue meters that McIntosh is known for. The metered versions seem to sell for around a $150 - $200 premium, which is an awful lot to pay for no additional functional advantage. |
| re: Looking for McIntosh Info... Stan? Anybody? | Mrs.Moondog
Apr 13, 2001 7:48 PM | | AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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