|Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||Grungemeister|
Jul 30, 2001 10:56 AM
|Tuners, amplifiers and receivers age well - my Pioneer SX-1250 is in mint condition and probably as good as the day it was made. And my SX-1010 is almost as good. Turntables last well too, especially direct drive models. Speakers - well, they vary. And cassette decks - they often fail after 10 to 15 years when the belts turn to mush.
So far, my two music systems are (almost) pure vintage. I have replaced the belt on my Pioneer PL-12D record deck four or five times, and my Technics SL-1300 direct drive needs nothing more than a couple of drops of oil every year to keep it running smoothly. My speakers (Spendor BC1s and Castle Richmonds) have both had replacement bass units, and are now as-new. And my two Aiwa AD-6400 cassette decks are still running on the original rubber bits, but have had new rec/play heads. Aiwa could no longer supply replacements, but did you know that they were identical to the heads fitted in Sony decks of the same era, in fact if you peel off the label on the head that says "Aiwa FGH" (Ferrite Guard Head) it says "Sony" underneath. I got my replacements from Sony Spares dept; I told them they were for a Sony TC-136SD, which was made around the same time.
If I was forced to buy a new record deck I would buy a Technics SL-1200/1210, which seems to have been in production since 1979! Amazing, really. A perfect match for an old Pioneer, Kenwood or Sansui receiver ... wish they still made the SA-1000!
Of course there were no CD players in the mid 1970's; I think the first prototypes were made in 1979. I have a Philips CD-104 (1985) and a Sony CDP-310 (1997) - these are OK, but I wish they matched the rest of my equipment! I am SO glad that silver is coming back!
How do the rest of you feel about this? Are you happy to use a vintage amp with modern speakers, for example?
Jul 30, 2001 11:25 AM
|Hiya, Grunge, |
My speakers date from 1969 to 2000. I mix and match. They are all fairly easy loads, "8 ohms nominal" impedance. The big vintage Pioneers would easily handle more difficult loads, and the Sansui G-9700 *is* driving two pair of speakers, so it should be seeing a 4 ohm nominal load, and it couldn't be happier. My bigger amps just laze, and the two PCR800 amps are wishing for Martin Logan's!! ;-)
I would like that the receivers could all easily take 12-ga. bare wire, or banana plugs. They don't always like pins, either.
My older The Fisher turntable is packed in its' box, and is kinda new from 78 or 79. The Denon DP-47F is a kid from 1987. My Yamaha CD-X2 is from 84.
Jul 30, 2001 1:41 PM
|I'm fuzzy on the concept of 8 ohm versus 4 ohm... could someone enlighten me?|
|Ohms, or, speaker impedance(s)||PeteH|
Jul 30, 2001 3:34 PM
|Well, it IS a fuzzy concept, and, despite speakers being labelled "8 ohm" or whatever, that is a very general, very approximate "nominal" load impedance. |
The speaker's impedance in ohms is the "load" it presents to the amplifier. Most typical, easy to drive speakers are "8 ohm" nominal impedance. Some are now rated 6 ohms, still pretty easy for the average home theater receiver to drive. 4 ohms, and less, however, present many problems, usually in the form of excess HEAT in the amplifier. Typically the woofer will draw the most power, that is it has the lowest impedance, and the tweeter will draw the least power, thus the highest impedance (which can be VERY high, like 10K-20K ohms).
Speakers with dynamic ("normal") drivers usually present a fairly easy and typical "8 ohm" load. Esoteric speakers, such as electrostatics and electrostatic-hybrids, may dip to 1 ohm, and require some serious amplifiers to drive them (not necessarily high power watt output).
One reason low-watt tube amps are still popular & in demand with those who have lots of disposable income. (That's a related, but different story.)
Now, this is neat!! If you have two pair of speaker systems, both nominally "8 ohms" and run them both from one amp/receiver, the load the amplifier "sees" is half of that, or 4 ohms. For our vintage gear, that is not a problem. BUT, if you have two pair of "4 ohm" speaker systems, that MAY be a problem for any but the heftiest power supplies. And definitely will fry (thank heavens for thermal protection circuits) today's HT receivers, 'cause that load will be down to 2 ohms (nominal).
The lower the number, the more juice the speaker is sucking out of the amp, thus more heat.
|Ohms, or, speaker impedance(s)||mile|
Jul 30, 2001 4:29 PM
|Thanks Pete, that does clarify it quite a bit for me... so most HT speakers would rate in the 8 ohm category? What is the advantage of low ohm'age? ;)
I've been looking at the Ascend Acoustics speaker combos, and did notice their flagship speaker is rated at 4 ohms (tweeter), but the reviews from users have been glowing to say the least...
|Ohms, or, speaker impedance(s)||PeteH|
Jul 30, 2001 5:33 PM
|So, you can see that the whole impedance "thing" is fuzzy at best. A lot of factors go into the manufacturers' nominal impedance rating. It is a combination of the drivers, the crossover, and even the internal wiring! And, as Ben stated, there is no industry-wide standard, so one maker's 8 ohm nominal impedance rating may be similar to a different maker's 6 ohm rating. Like "input power" ratings, they are muzzy fuzzy and considered estimates. Sensitivity, though, is fairly standard, but frequency response/frequency range is pretty opaque if not qualified with a +/- dB range.
Amplifiers generally deliver more output into lower impedances (less resistance or load) but, unless they are rated for those impedances, that generates heat, and that can result in thermal overload and shutdown.
The whole of the thing is that the entire system is a part of the equation. The speakers ultimately present the output from the source, and the pre- and main-amp(s) act on the source signal to (yes!) amplifier the source signal.
Ben, interesting comment re the Klipsch, they are VERY efficient (very sensitive) and should produce volume with less input. C'est la vie!
Man, this is a GREAT hobby!
|Ohms, or, speaker impedance(s)||Tuck|
Jul 31, 2001 5:15 PM
|Pete: Most of your answer about speaker impedance was O.K., but that statement about tweeter impedance being 10 to 20k ohms is way off base. Dynamic tweeters have impedance characteristics similar to other dynamic speakers that function at lower frequencies. Tweeter impedance rises at resonance to about 30 or 40 ohms, and drops to it's nominal rated value over the rest of it's operating range, give or take a few ohms. It NEVER, EVER remotely approaches anything like the high value you suggest. The reason that tweeters "draw" less power than woofers is that the program material(music and voice) contains very little energy at the frequencies that the tweeter handles, compared to the energy that the woofer and mid-range receive. If you don't believe this, try feeding a full range audio signalat a normal listening level to a tweeter that is directly connected to the amplifier without a crossover network to filter out the low frequency content and see how many seconds it takes to destroy it.Tuck.|
|Vintage systems||Dr. T|
Jul 31, 2001 4:36 AM
|An ohm is the unit of measurement of impedence. Impedence means just what the name implies--the tendency to impede or resist. The lower the resistance, the more the current that can get through. Think of a 4 or 2 ohm load as offering far less resistance to the source than 8 or 16 ohm, so more current gets trough. A bigger hose offers less resistance to the water source, so more water gets through. In an amplifier, if the power supply cannot provide the the current needed to accomodate the lower resistance, it will be overtaxed.|
|spring clip connectors||UK|
Jul 31, 2001 9:24 AM
|Have any of you tried drilling out the spring clip connector holes (while pressing the clip open) to accept a larger guage wire? I've thought about dong this but haven't tried it yet. Seems like it ought to work if done gently and not too big.|
|spring clip connectors||TomM|
Jul 31, 2001 10:29 AM
|Seems like a risky operation- the drill bit might grab a piece of that folded spring metal and just tear it out.
If I really wanted to try that, I'd use a high speed Dremel tool with a 1/8" diameter grinding stone bit while pressing them open.
Me, myself, and I might just take out the spring clips and install bananna jacks/binding posts.
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||ckelly|
Jul 30, 2001 8:00 PM
I have a mixed system:
Marantz 2226 receiver (1977)
Yamaha CDC-575 CD changer (2 months old)
Sansui SC-1110 deck (1978)
Technics M24 deck (early 80's)
Paradigm Monitor 3 speakers (9 months old)
I find the system very ear pleasing ;-)
To me vintage audio is about getting the most bang for the buck, both sonically as well as in style and construction. I find the only disadvantage in vintage audio is not to have a remote control, but that I can live without if i can enjoy the blue lights of a Marantz receiver or the dancing VU meters which so few new systems have. To get an all new system of similar quality would cost a lot of money. It seems you pay more and you get less these days, not to mention that to find a stereo system is not simple.
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||audiolover|
Jul 30, 2001 11:18 PM
My audio stuff consists out of:
- sansui G-9700
- pioneer SX-1050
- pioneer SX-1250
- kenwood KR-9050
- kenwood KA 8004 (int)
- sansui AU 7700 (int)
- optonica SM-4646 (int)
- philips 572 (pre)
- philips 578 (power IMHO better sounding than the power receivers)
- philips 578 (power IMHO better sounding than the power receivers)
- lafayette LA224B (tubes)
- philips CD-100 (1st cd-player for home-use)
- Beocord 5000
- JBL L7
- B&W DM2a
- Translator Impact 5
- Tannoy Saturn 8
- Bose 601
I like old stuff. The thing I really want is vintage speakers, matching the power-receivers. Here in Holland (large) vintage speakers are very rare.
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||Drybasement|
Jul 31, 2001 11:41 AM
|It's mixed for me, but I'm assuming vintage is anything before 1980. For some vintage would be even earlier. But here's what I got.
Sansui G-4500 - Received this new in 1979
Technics SL-230 TT - Again, received this new in 1979
Sansui G7700 - eBay purchase
Pioneer SX-780 - ebay purchase
Pioneer SX-1250 - Pawn shop find
Teac V-2RX Cassette - Bought this new in 1984
Sansui AU-D11ll Integrated Amp - Bought this new in 1984
Sansui TU-S77X Tuner - Bought this new in 1984. Very nice digital tuner
All receivers/amps, except for the G-4500, are routed through an Audio Authority model 410 amp switcher and connect to Cerwin Vega D-7 digital series speakers that I purchased in 1988. The G-4500 is connected to a pair of RS Optimus bookshelf speakers that I purchased in 1988 also.
Sony 5 disc CD Player (forget model no.) - bought new in 1992
Nakamichi CR-5A Cassette - eBay purchase and dates from around 1990.
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||wolfshead|
Aug 1, 2001 9:25 AM
|i Have a Marantz Model 7 preamp, Mac275, Marantz 10B tuner,Revox A77 |
recorder and a pair of JBL Hartsfield speakers Transcripter table with SME
tone arm #2
My second system consist of Marantz 3800 preamp, Dynco 400 power amp
Marantz 150 tuner, philips Cd recorder, Thorens table with SME tone arm #2 Pioneer cassette three head deck.
Aug 1, 2001 10:20 AM
|Just curious, how did you come about getting this tuner? They sell for between $1500 and $2000 on eBay. Very desirable collectors item. Is it everything you hoped it would be, as far as tuner performance goes? Always thought that Oscope was pretty cool.
Planning on upgrading my TT. Thought about getting a Dual or a Thorens. Any recommendations? Regas are nice, but they don't have that vintage look. The Marantz Esotec TT1000 is also very sharp.
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||shef|
Jul 31, 2001 12:24 PM
|Hey G nice set-up..looks like you have all bases covered...my main vintage systems uses: |
Dual 1019 TT
KLH Model 6 speakers
Marantz 2025B cassette deck
BTW are you the fella from the UK, i remember the Castle speakers, you don't see them in North America as much...
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||DRP|
Jul 31, 2001 5:00 PM
|I just discovered that even the speaker wire I am using is from the 70's. Not that it bothers me.|
|re: Do you guys have all-vintage systems?||Brian Levy|
Aug 2, 2001 10:11 AM
|I don't collect vintage equip. Most of it was new when I bought it:
McIntosh C28 preamp
McIntosh MR77 tuner
McIntoch MC250 power amp
McIntosh MC2105 power amp
McIntosh MX110 tuner/preamp
Dynaco FM-3 tuner
Dynaco SCA35 integrated amp
Sherwood 3000 tuner
Sherwood 5000 integrated amp
Bozak 302A speakers
Bozak Symphony speakers
Smaller Advent speakers
A/D/S 300 speakers
Koss ESP9b headphones
Koss K6 headphones
Thorens TD160c tt
Thorens TD125 tt w/ TP16 mkII arm
Empire 598 mk II tt
ADC XLM MKII catridge
Pickering 4500 series cartridge (actually designed for the quad systems of yesterdayyear)
Various Shures, Stanton, and other cartridges
Pioneer SX525 receiver
Sony Str6065 receiver
Interconnects and speaker wires from all years and walks of life.
1st generation Magnavox CD player (I think it works)