|   what can I expect with this vintage/classic gear? | dean_martin
Feb 24, 2003 11:35 AM | | I've been suffering from an uncontrollable urge to try some vintage type equipment. So I took the plunge and bought the following this weekend off eBay:
Sansui AU-5900 integrated
Marantz 112 tuner
I know from past experience that eBay can be hit or miss. Assuming these units function as they are supposed to, what can I expect as far as sound quality and FM station-pulling performance? Also, I'm torn between 2 Akai model tape decks - one has auto-reverse, one doesn't. Anyone with Akai tape deck experience? Should I stay away from the auto-reverse feature? Finally, I've been researching vintage AR, Advent and KLH speakers as compared to something new. Any recommendation for a vintage small speaker to be driven by the Sansui will be appreciated. I'll probably wait til summer to add a turntable. On the vintage system I'll be listening to jazz and classical on FM and when I decide on the tape deck to classic rock and jazz on tape recorded from LPs. I also do a lot of latenight headphone listening.
BTW, this is my current music-only system. How do you think the vintage stuff will compare?
Acurus A100 amp
Parasound P/HP 850 pre
AMC cd8b cd player
Yamaha CT-44 big black faced analog tuner (most were silver)
Yamaha KX-130 cassette (old no-frills work horse)
Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable
Acoustic Energy Aegis One speakers
Grado SR-60 headphones
Thanks |
| Well... I certainly ain't no vintage expert, but... | Jimmy C
Feb 25, 2003 3:33 PM | | ...some of the older tuners work better than their counterparts of today. Why? Not sure... maybe because today's tuner audience is less than it was yesteryear, rendering the radio as an afterthought. Similiar to the crappy phono stages of new receivers - they're not needed (for the most part) as much. Of course, there are always the exceptions. There are companies now that modify old Marantz tuners... I suppose they were a good starting point.
As far as speakers go, you might want to check out Boston and Snell Acoustics. They made (still make) decent (and Snell makes a serious transducer) speakers that would serve you well. The 1980s line-up has some great models suitable for jazz and classical. I think this time frame bridges the gap between today's hyper-analytical presentation and the muddy sound you might find from old KLHs and the like. Before I get beaten up, there are exceptions to that. I simply have never heard an "old" speaker that sounded good. The A - series from Boston is good as well as some "K", "J" or "A" series from Snell. Just a few ideas, check eBay.. they are almost always there. To this day, I regret selling my A-70s - they were fun to listen to. I do, however, have a pair of Snell Js that I refoamed. Not the pillar of accuracy, but they offer a soft, warm, and detailed sound with decent bass.
The vintage stuff is definitely fun. It can also offer great sound, provided you know what you're doing... unlike me! Hhmmm... maybe the stacked Advents or something... I would like to hear that!
Have fun with the quest, and lettuce know what you find out! |
| speakers with lattice work grills? | dean_martin
Feb 25, 2003 4:20 PM | | I will definitely check out the Bostons and Snells. I've seen some older speakers that had lattice work on the grills. Do you know if a particular company used that style or was it universal?
I went ahead and made a deal for an Akai GXC-730D tape deck. I can test the system with my current speakers and use my headphones until I decide whether to go new or vintage.
As far as tuners go, I prefer seeing the whole tuning dial. (I don't know why.) My Yamaha analog tuner has a sweet sound. But my kids like the convenience of the digital tuners with presets. I should have my three new/old components in by the middle of next week. Unless I get stuck with a lemon I plan on posting about my experience with the new toys. |
| speakers with lattice work grills? | Jimmy C
Feb 26, 2003 4:52 AM | | I can remember Realistic (Radio Shack) speakers with lattice work. There may have been others, but it definitely wasn't universal (thank God).
Have fun with your new stuff. |
| speakers with lattice work grills? | sam46
Feb 28, 2003 6:36 PM | | Sansui speakers had lattice grills that were pretty nice. Unfortunatly, most of those speakers had really terrible vinyl stick on "wood" veneer, like many of the old Pioneer SX recievers had. They were nice sounding speakers at the time, though. |
| speakers with lattice work grills? | dean_martin
Mar 12, 2003 3:27 PM | | The reason I asked about the lattice grills is I happened to catch part of a show on HGTV called "The Collector Inspector" where this guy goes to people's homes and gives his opinions on their collections. He was at this lady's house looking around this room and commenting on a bunch of old stuff. She had a pair of speakers in corners. The speakers had a beautiful finish that looked like real wood with what looked like real wood lattice on the grills. The guy walked by and around the speakers but never commented on them (or if he did it was before I tuned in). The camera never zoomed in close enough to see a manufacturer's badge or symbol. It was kind of frustrating sitting there listening to him ramble on about old John Deere signs, etc. with those speakers in the same room. |
| re: what can I expect with this vintage/classic gear? | Night Wolf
Feb 26, 2003 12:58 PM | | Pioneer, Kenwood, and a few others used lattice wood grills also.
I think you will enjoy your vintage gear, IMO vintage analog tuners are far better then todays digital ones
AFA speakers, it depends on how much money you have, if you have around $400, go with a pair of JBL L100's hands down (proably be hard pressed to find a spekaer 3-4x that price too) if you want to stay aroundf $150 or so, get a pair of KLH model 6's, it really depends on your music type, the JBL's are perhaps the best all-around speaker, becuase they are amazing for critical listneing, but yet are one of the most well-known, flat out balls to the walls, plaster crackin' bass poundin' party speakers there are.....yet still remain very clean and detailed (they are the ol' West Cost sound) while the KLH's are more laid back, don't have the pounding bass, but really musical (New England sound) although the JBL's have the KLH's beat in pretty much every aspect, they are both really nice speakers |
| re: what can I expect with this vintage/classic gear? | sam46
Feb 28, 2003 6:54 PM | | Another vintage speaker that can be found cheap sometimes is Norman Labs. It is a no-name company that went out of business long ago, but if you see some, give them a liston. You may be very surprised. |
| Here's the verdict... | dean_martin
Mar 8, 2003 3:07 PM | | I work in a 3-story office with my dad in a rural town in Alabama. We were using the 3rd floor as storage but I needed a place to spread out for most of my work so we cleaned out the 3rd floor. I furnished it with a black metal desk (yes, the kind our teachers used to have), heavy-duty folding tables and 2 heavy-duty metal shelf units for file boxes. I needed some book cases for documents, 3-ring binders, etc., but I also knew that I wanted a vintage system to go in the book case. I couldn't find anything deep enough so a friend custom built a shelving unit for me that turned out perfect. Now to the good stuff! I put a Sansui AU-5900, Marantz 112 tuner and Akai GXC-730 tape deck on and in the shelf unit. The amp and tuner are side by side on the top which is a little more than waist high. The tape deck is on an adjustable shelf under the amp.
The amp - I've tested the amp with speakers just to make sure both channels work and they do. I didn't do much critical listening but was convinced that everything was fine. At work I'm listening with Grado SR60 headphones. I cannot believe how powerful and clear the headphone amp is. By comparison, I really have to crank the volume on my Parasound pre at home. Not so with the Sansui.
The tuner - On the 3rd floor this baby picks up stations like a champ. It is clear, dynamic and powerful. Fortunatley, I'm able to pick up an FM station about 60 miles away that uses no compression. It's a college station that plays mostly classical, but every night from 8-12 has an excellent locally produced jazz show. Right now I'm using an old pair of tv rabbit ears with no problems. Any suggestions for a good FM antenna?
The tape deck - amazing! I used to make a lot of cassettes with my home system for listening in my old vehicle. That vehicle has been replaced with one with a cd player. I haven't listened to my tapes in a long time. On the Akai they sound great. Who needs digital? The Akai is tank-like and looks like quality. I was a little concerned about the auto reverse feature thinking that it's something else to tear up, but it sure is convenient.
Overall, the aesthetics of this system are exactly as I had imagined. I'm very pleased. I may add a turntable (I have an old Marantz 6100 collecting dust) and speakers later, but I'm satisfied with headphone listening now. I would like to post a picture of this system. I don't have a digital camera but I do have a decent 35mm and a scanner. Would a scanned 35mm photo work here? |
| re: what can I expect with this vintage/classic gear? | nopcbs
Mar 14, 2003 5:27 PM | | Old FM tuners and tuner sections in stereo receivers (properly functioning) anr better performing that current models (at least affordable models) simply because designers actually cared about FM reception back them because customers did. Today FM is basically dead as far as high quality sound is concerned (from the broadcast end), so the manufacturers include the cheapest IC they can find that will simply do an adequate job.
Auto-reverse decks are usually a pain because the head has to flip around to play both sides (rare exceptions like some Nakamichi's where the cassette is flipped instead. This makes keeping the azimuth adjustment correct really hard. I have an auto-reverse Sony changer deck that I use to convert audio books to CD and it is adequate for that chore, but really not for music for exactly that reason.
Forget about the old speakers vs. new. This is where technology has really made headway -- high frequency drivers are much better than they were in the '70's/'80's with rare exceptions. The sweet spot is speakers around 5-10 years old. These enjoy the benefits of mature metal dome tweeter design, but are still depreciated a bit vs. new. Old speakers also often suffer from cone rot. Not hard to fix, but a nuisance. Buy something under 10 years old with rubber surrounds and you will be happy and save money. In my opinion, the best deals are the Canadian brands and NHT.
Some of the old exotic stuff Infinity QRS/QLS, for example, or Magnepan Tympani's or Dahlquist DQ-10's can be very good and interesting, but these things are really big and the spousal approval factor can be extremely negative. |
| re: what can I expect with this vintage/classic gear? | Night Wolf
Mar 18, 2003 12:32 PM | | I agree with everything you say, but this:
"Forget about the old speakers vs. new. This is where technology has really made headway -- high frequency drivers are much better than they were in the '70's/'80's with rare exceptions. The sweet spot is speakers around 5-10 years old. These enjoy the benefits of mature metal dome tweeter design, but are still depreciated a bit vs. new. Old speakers also often suffer from cone rot. Not hard to fix, but a nuisance. Buy something under 10 years old with rubber surrounds and you will be happy and save money. In my opinion, the best deals are the Canadian brands and NHT. "
I will have to disagree. while I will agree to a point about the tweeters, my KBL L100's have LE25-2's, they have a 24ounch AlNiCo magnet, and are about 1.5" paper cone. sounds pretty bad right? well when I went to repalce them with new Vifa dual concentric ring radaitors (the expensive ones) I was really dissapointed, and now in the market for another mint pair of LE25-2's (my pair went a horrible death after 25 years.... being shorted out by 2 high power receivers)
You mention about the sweet spot, some speakers like my KLH 17's ('69) do not have a really good sweet spot, and are not good at reproducing the "you are there" feeling. but they are truly nice speakers. for a 2-way system with a 10" woofer, they can really rock (something they were not made to do) the tweeter in them is very good and the bass, although rolls off at around 50-60hz is very tight and well controlled (it was one of the first generations of a acoustic suspension design that Henry Kloss made.) oh, and the woofers have fabric surrond so there is no surrond rot.
The JBL L100's is a speaker that has excelent imaging and sound stage (granted they are setup properly, that plays a huge factor in the whole thing) and just have a very wide and focused sound stage. probally because they were designed as studio monitors and made to be in a medium-field environment (6-8feet golden triangle) Again, all 3 drivers are paper cones, laugh all you want, I used to laugh at paper cones....until I heard my L100's and all the drivers have fabric surrond so that they wont rot over the years. the L100 is also a great speaker when you just want to have a all out party, with the sensitivity around 96db, and the abality to take all the power you have, and sound ultra-clean at excessive high volumes as they do lower volumes, they are also well know as a great party speaker (sadly people think they are only good as a party speaker becuase they never head a properly setup pair etc...) but either way the L100 is a great speaker system |
| |
